Adorable "Spoon Eared" Rabbits???

[Dood]

I no longer have faith.

Look at how popular dwarf breeds are, lots of people have them but how many are aware of the problems associated with their tiny ears, compact bodies and/or smooshed in faces?

In my experience, not many at all !

There are lots of stories on just this forum of people buying a dwarf then thinking they'll have a litter or two and lament when they get a peanut or max factor or stillborns or vet bills to save their doe or the doe dies from retained kits.

 

[DogCatMom]

My "thanks" to Dood's earlier post is based on photos I saw of Löffelohr rabbits who are *already* in existence, poor things. In several cases, their hind legs are extraordinarily long relative to the rest of their body and front legs, making for a rabbit that is probably uncomfortable any time it's on its feet.

Even the German-language Löffelohr websites omitted any discussion of the awkward leg lengths and positions (I read German and was looking for such discussions). The faces of many of these rabbits also looked odd to me: their noses were flat to the point of almost being "missing"; one poor thing's chin/lower jaw seemed to have been left out of its make-up, or at least not completely provided for. The first German-language site linked to in the discussion below does discuss the nose/face problems; the breeder/writer also mentions "cow-hocked" hind legs but not the length/proportion aspect.

The primary links can be found in this discussion. Just follow them and look at the photos. Note that, in German, "Nase" = nose; "Blume" = tail; "Hinterbein[en]" = hind leg. There are a few additional websites findable via Internet search using the term "Löffelohr," with or without the umlaut over the O.

 

[akane]

The round smooshed face of the ND did bother me at first. I've gotten used to it and now it's kind of cute. None of mine ever had problems from it or the small ears. They have been quite durable and illness free. The only vet bills I've had were issues with a mini rex having her first litter, Amako's (MR) horrible infection, and a champagne d'argent who prolapsed her entire uterus before I knew how to put them down myself. I did lose most of my first and often second ND litters from each doe due to the birthing problems but they usually produced fine after that. We'll see how these new ones more closely bred to show type do. My others were from 2 does that were both bigger than ND standard and had less round faces. My main buck is absolutely tiny though. Only about 1lb.

 

[Zass]

Well, It doesn't really matter if we like it, we will probably see them here eventually, by someone paying to bring them in, smuggling them, or a new mutation. They will sell like crazy on the US pet market.

Twisty cats is a new one to me...how sick, but then again, polydactyl cats are naturally selected by well meaning individuals from lots of inbred feral populations. I've heard people bragging about cats they have found with...even more toes then the usual 6 or 7 toed polydactyl cats.
Apparently, it's in our nature to believe anything different is special. [I suppose it's a fair argument towards maintaining genetic diversity within our domesticated species (both plant and animal).]
Personally, I hate it when I see breeders promoting any mutation that compromises the potential health of the animal.
I also wish people would understand that line breeding can be really important for turning up and eliminating harmful recessive genes from a bloodline.
I've read too often "inbreeding is the problem", but it's not, allowing harmful recessives to exist in a bloodline by spreading out the genes and introducing them recessively, and thus invisibly, to a larger population can be much worse.

I don't breed cats or dogs, simply because it would be considered "unethical" to cull as thoroughly as I'd want to.

Now, with rabbits I'm working on lining up lots of recessives...is that any better? I've seen Dood mention health issues associated with the dilution gene. What others am I unaware of? Do all dilute rabbits have those problems? I haven't noticed my friend's blue Americans being any less hardy them my own non-dilute stock, if anything the opposite.

I have heard mention of dwarfs, really square faced lops, charlies and VM or BEW having health issues. What else should all rabbit breeders know about?

 

[Peach]

I think they are adorable! Just the health issues that come with the look is a hefty price to pay. I enjoy selective breeding, but couldn't knowingly breed something that was linked to those things. So you couldn't cull out poor examples or are the problems 100% linked to the genes? Could you outcross to provide more genetic material to work with?


I haven't had issues with broken x broken breedings being and weaker or stronger or dilutes being genetically weaker. When babies die, I seem to have equal amounts or solids die to brokens. So it's a bit of a toss up. However, I do pay attention that I've never had a runt become show quality or breeding quality. I save myself the trouble, and cull them out from the nesting box. I don't like culling, but I don't want them to "accidently" re enter the gene pool (Pet Quality does go to FC and I just offer the bucks for pets) and I don't have to put all that feed into it.

Perhaps issues with the Dwarf breeds are also a matter of culling aswell. You can test breed for true,false, and carriers. You can breed for larger HQs. You can cull for temperament.

Just sucks that sure there are people that would put in hard work, but there are people that would be more interested in the money aspect here and the breed would suffer. What breed of animal isn't like this though? There are good and bad breeders of every breed. Overtime, you will make or break yourself through your reputation.

I think it's the one thing I like about rabbits, I'd love to breed Boxers, but I couldn't do what a dog breeder does and I do not have the financial ability to do what a breeder does, thus I will not attempt it At least you can eat a rabbit cull!

 

[akane]

Someday I'd like to attempt dog breeding but after looking at various breeds and purposes for various lines I haven't settled on anything I'd like to produce more of. I may forget about it unless I find the money to import uncommon animals that are better bred than the US versions. Same with cats. I would love to produce interesting colored or purebred cats when I have a space I can devote to just them rather than letting them run the house (allergies, peeing, and cat destruction has frustrated us in the past) but I can't find the quality or other traits that would make them guaranteed to find good homes in an area overrun with farm cats. I'd cull a cat or dog if I had to but I'd hate to do that since they aren't really suitable to any use. Now goats I have plans for but I can butcher the excess bucklings and any doelings that don't meet breed requirements.

 

[DogCatMom]

I think they are adorable! Just the health issues that come with the look is a hefty price to pay. I enjoy selective breeding, but couldn't knowingly breed something that was linked to those things. So you couldn't cull out poor examples or are the problems 100% linked to the genes? Could you outcross to provide more genetic material to work with?

The first linked website in the post at Zeta goes to a breeder who worked with Löffelohr rabbits for two years. First, she discovered that breeding LO x LO = unviable kits; she would perhaps have one viable kit out of a very small (two or three) litter.

That's when she hit upon the idea of mating LO x LOT ("Löffelohr Träger" or carrier) rabbits, similar to Scottish Fold cats and (I think?) the various merled Australian Shepherds in dogs. But the deformities continued. The litters had a few more viable kits (maybe two or three? out of four or so born alive), but the problems I enumerated earlier continued.

If you go to her site and view the photos she took of various genetic deformities (none of them are what I would call "graphic"--nothing like the "graphic" post-mortem photos here, for sure), you'll be able to see for yourself what she experienced. After two years of trying LO x LOT matings and even some complete outcrosses, she said, We're not doing this ever again. Too many of those initially viable kits didn't even make it to 2 years old.

 

[arachyd]

Lol. Not attracted to them at all. They just look like somewhat odd hamsters to me.

 

[HoppinHalfPints]

I have heard mention of dwarfs, really square faced lops, charlies and VM or BEW having health issues. What else should all rabbit breeders know about?

Errr, try telling that to my herd. They are all healthy, vibrant, and sweet. I would say, though, butting teeth in youngsters is sometimes a problem. It happens occasionally, but they eventually grow out of it and get a better bite. That, and peanuts, are the only problems I have had since I started breeding.

 

[concreteblonde]

Looks like one of those petite rabbits with the short pointy ears got crossed with a mini-Lop and the short won out.

 

[cutopia]

Lol. Not attracted to them at all. They just look like somewhat odd hamsters to me.

I agree. The trait has all those facial problems associated with it and in some of the photos you can really see it... their noses often don't look right.

Plus, almost all of the photos I've seen of the trait are in babies... when I did find a photo of an adult (I think this one has the trait?):

I could barely tell they had the trait.
That makes it seem like a very destructive gimmick: sell people an animal that has a really unique look as a baby, but just looks average as an adult... as if there isn't already enough of a problem with people getting rid of their rabbits after a year.