Ack. Poopy babies.

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Cali

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I was blaming my doe for peeing on her babies, but I bathed them and kept them away from her last night and woke up to a very stinky nest box this morning. Babies had poop everywhere, super poopy butts and feet/heads/etc. I have noticed some mushy poop on the doe's end as well. She has no other symptoms, is eating normally (I haven't changed her food), good weight, normal behavior. The babies are disgusting but well fed. Their genital areas are VERY red/swollen. What can I do?

Sorry for posting so much lately ! :oops:
 
Oh no! The only thing I know to suggest is Biosol which is neomycin sulfate or dri-tail for hamsters which is a diluted form of neomycin sulfate. Hope they feel better soon!
 
amybart4570":157tr3gi said:
Oh no! The only thing I know to suggest is Biosol which is neomycin sulfate or dri-tail for hamsters which is a diluted form of neomycin sulfate. Hope they feel better soon!

Thank you! Will the dosage info on the one for hamsters be the same as for popples?<br /><br />__________ Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:40 pm __________<br /><br />
MaggieJ":157tr3gi said:
Put the doe on a short term diet of grass hay and kitchen oatmeal (like Quaker Old Fashioned/Large Flake). Remove the pellets. If you access to the lawn weeds plantain or shepherd's purse or the leaves of raspberry, blackberry or strawberry, feed her those. Offer the same things to the kits... If they are old enough to nibble these things may help them too. :clover:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_major
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/shepherd.htm

Thanks Maggie! I'll go yank her pellets from her now. She has been getting a pinch of kitchen oatmeal every day, she loves that stuff. Should I just fill her j-feeder? I've been giving her pellets free choice while she is pregnant/nursing
 
My thinking - and I could be wrong since I have never encountered this problem - is that by treating the doe by changing her diet, the kits will benefit indirectly. I would give her a measured amount of the oatmeal rather than filling her feeder. You can always give her a second serving later in the day. The grass hay should be fed free choice.

How are the kits this morning? If their bottoms are still red from the diarrhea, I'd clean them carefully and put a small amount of vegetable oil on the red parts to protect the skin from further irritation.

Keep us updated, please.

Edited to add;

I've been thinking more about this since I posted. There is a possibility that the kits are suffering from an e-coli problem.

Colibacillosis

Escherichia coli as a cause of rabbit diarrhea has been confused by the circumstance that E coli often proliferate when rabbits develop diarrhea for any reason. Enteropathogenic strains of E coli (serotype O103) commonly express the eae gene, which codes for intimin, an outer membrane protein associated with the attaching and effacing lesions. Serotypes O15:H, O109:H2, O103:H2, O128, and O132 are also important. Normal healthy rabbits do not have E coli of any strain associated with their GI tract.

Two types of colibacillosis are seen in rabbits, depending on age. Rabbits 1–2 wk old develop a severe yellowish diarrhea that results in high mortality. It is common for entire litters to succumb to this disease. In weaned rabbits 4–6 wk old, a diarrheal disease very similar to that described for enterotoxemia is seen. The intestines are fluid filled, with petechial hemorrhages on the serosal surface, similar to the pathology described for both Tyzzer's disease and enterotoxemia (see Rabbits: Enterotoxemia). Death occurs in 5–14 days, or rabbits are left stunted and unthrifty. Diagnosis is made by isolating E coli on blood agar and then having the isolate biotyped or serotyped. Electron micrographs of E coli attached to the mucosa are also helpful. In severe cases, treatment is not successful; in mild cases, antibiotics are of value. Severely affected rabbits should be culled, and facilities thoroughly sanitized. High-fiber diets appear to help prevent the disease in weaned rabbits.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_ ... bbits.html
 
How is eveybody today? These popples were born the other day right? I'm digging for info, check back in a little while.
 
Get some ProBios or Benebac to recharge the doe's digestive flora. That should help as well. I don't know that I would give such tiny babies antibiotics, but you could give it to the doe and they will get it thru her milk.
 
3 died :(

The remaining 3 look okay. I've cleaned them and the nest box up. I scrubbed the nest box with bleach and let it sit for a little while, then rinsed it. It's drying now, and the babies are in a warm towel on a heating pad. They were all VERY cold to touch. Two protested their baths with loud screaming, the other I think was trying to scream but no noise was coming out?

What sort of antibiotic should I get her? Would I need to get that from the vet? I will get some benebac today.. definitely going to be putting together a rabbit first aid kit after this.. kicking myself for not doing so beforehand.


MaggieJ":18fy4thi said:
Rabbits 1–2 wk old develop a severe yellowish diarrhea
They definitely have that..
 
Found this, it may help...

Emergency protocol for diarrhea in infant and juvenile
rabbits, cottontails and hares
copyright Dana Krempels, Ph.D. July 2007
An infant lagomorph presenting with runny stool will often be close to death within hours of onset if the condition is not treated immediately and aggressively. Such animals succumb primarily to dehydration, but inflammation and shock are often contributing factors.

We have used the treatments below to successfully save infant and juvenile lagomorphs who were close
to death from diarrhea. All treatments below should be undertaken only under the advice and supervision
of a licensed veterinarian. Find an experienced rabbit veterinarian at www.rabbit.org/vets
While the author recognizes that it is best to prescribe medications for known pathogens, she has seen
enough young lagomorphs quickly die from dehydration and other complications of diarrhea to realize
that it is not always possible to identify the causative agent in time. A very sick baby rabbit may have no time to wait for a culture and sensitivity test, or even a fecal exam. For this reason, I recommend that the following emergency treatments be provided as a lifesaving measure. (If a baby rabbit is dying anyway, then these things may give the only chance of survival).

Among the most common causes of diarrhea in young rabbits are Escherichia coli and Eimeria spp.
The treatments below are meant to combat primarily these two agents, and are shown in the order
that we administer them to effect the greatest preventive and palliative care possible.
KEEP THE BABY WARM AND QUIET. A dehydrated baby rabbit can easily become
hypothermic, which is not only life-threatening, but can interfere with the efficacy of the treatments
below. Towel-wrapped warm water bottles or bags are a safe source of heat.
1. To arrest diarrhea quickly (of critical importance):
Imodium (loperamide) at 1 mg/kg Q 4-8 hours (depending on severity). This is available
over the counter at most pharmacies.
2. Hydration:
Subcutaneous Lactated Ringers Solution (10ml/kg total in 2-3 boli over 24 hours.
This can be increased if the diarrhea is severe, to prevent dehydration and keep
electrolytes at normal levels. Consult your veterinarian about the proper dosage.
3. Antibiotics:
a. ciprofloxacin at 20 mg/kg Q 12 hours – PO (oral administration) only. Oral
administration provides immediate contact with intestinal pathogens that injections will
not handle as quickly or directly. Although there may be some concern about potential
fluoroquinolones’ potential interference with normal cartilage development in juvenile
mammals, (1) we have seen no evidence of this in the many lagomorphs we have treated
with these antibiotics and (2) if the choice is a possible cartilage problem or death, the
choice seems clear.
b. metronidazole at 20mg/kg Q 12 hours – PO only; see above.
4. Anticoccidial medication:
1. Ponazuril/toltrazuril (20mg/kg Q 24 hours)
OR
2. Trimethoprim sulfa or Albon (sulfadimethoxine)
(Note: We have found that ponazuril (Marquis by Bayer) is far superior to the sulfa or potentiated sulfa antibiotics for killing coccidia. My own (unpublished) data show
complete parasite eradication (as determined from sequential fecal exams showingprogressively
more shrunken and vacuolated sporocysts) in three days of treatment.
5. Helminthicidal medication:
Panacur (fenbendazole) at 20mg/kg Q 24 hours (Note: albendazole has a higher
radiomimetic toxicity than fenbendazole or oxibendazole, has been associated with acute,
fatal toxicity in rabbits. It is NOT recommended for this species.)
6. Recommended analgesia (pain relief):
1. pediatric simethicone suspension (0.5 – 1.0 cc Q 6-8 hours) for gas relief
2. sulfasalazine (30 - 50 mg suspended in clean water Q 12 hours)
3. barium suspension (0.5-1.0 ml Q 12 hours) (also helps arrest diarrhea)
4. meloxicam (0.1 – 0.3 mg/kg Q 24 hours)
OR
5. Banamine (flunixin meglumine) (not both! Use only one NSAID!)
6. Tramadol (2-6mg/kg Q 12 hours)
(Note: If Banamine is used, famotidine (antacid) is also recommended, but should not be
administered for an hour after other medications have been given.)
7. General immune support and bacteriocidal action:
colostrum (contents of 2 capsules dissolved in about 10cc pasteurized goat milk).
Administer small amounts over several hours, about 1-2 cc at a time, or as much as the
baby will accept.
8. Absorption/adsorption of intestinal toxins:
Questran (cholestyramine resin) - by prescription at most major pharmacies DO NOT
ADMINISTER THIS AGENT FOR AT LEAST ONE HOUR AFTER ALL OTHER ORAL
MEDICATIONS HAVE BEEN GIVEN, AS IT MAY INTERFERE WITH OR INACTIVATE
THE OTHER DRUGS.
Suspend about ¼ teaspoon in 10 ml of water, and allow to hydrate for approximately 10 minutes.
Give 1-2 cc of this suspension every 12 hours, but DO NOT give it within an hour of other
medications, as it may absorb them. DO NOT give any other medications for 4-6 hours after
Questran dose, as Questran will continue to absorb/adsorb substances from the gut lumen,
reducing or eliminating their efficacy.
Updated on 17 October 2009
For more information, please contact:
Dana Krempels, Ph.D.
Department of Biology
University of Miami
Coral Gables, FL 33124
[email protected]

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/squirts.pdf
 
Hi Cali sorry 3 died. How is the momma doing? In addition to hay and oats I would add apple cider vinegar (1 TB per gallon water) to her water along with giving the benebac.
 
Thank you for finding that OAF!

Hi Cali sorry 3 died. How is the momma doing? In addition to hay and oats I would add apple cider vinegar (1 TB per gallon water) to her water along with giving the benebac.

Mama looks good, I'm keeping an eye on her but she is her usual cantankerous self. I have some ACV on hand, will put some of that in her bottle- thank you!

__________ Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:10 am __________

Make that four dead. :(

__________ Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:49 am __________

How can I prevent this in future litters? I have a Satin doe due to kindle later this month.<br /><br />__________ Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:17 pm __________<br /><br />I'm down to one and its not looking so great. Giving immodium but it seems pretty weak.

Does anyone know how they get this? I wish I hadn't wasted time thinking mom was peeing on them. I'll disinfect the rabbitry but still wondering if there are any preventative measures I can take with future litters..
 
Apple cider vinegar is anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and boost the immune system. Wouldn't hurt to give it to everybody. Its hard to know exactly what it is, so disinfect eveything and hopefully it hasn't spread. Its hard to say if it was bacterial, viral or a parasite. Has the momma's stool return to normal?
 
Last baby died last night.

amybart4570":fhl5gho5 said:
Apple cider vinegar is anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and boost the immune system. Wouldn't hurt to give it to everybody. Its hard to know exactly what it is, so disinfect eveything and hopefully it hasn't spread. Its hard to say if it was bacterial, viral or a parasite. Has the momma's stool return to normal?

I went ahead and gave ACV to all of the buns. Mama's stool is looking normal, she looks very healthy. All of the other rabbits seem fine. Hopefully I will have better luck with the next batch.

Thanks everyone for your help. I learned a lot!
 
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