A white rabbit question with a bet on!

[GBov]

This is only a HYPOTHETICAL question so no one get upset please, I am NOT turning loose rabbits just for a bet! :lol:

So my mum and I got talking about my Florida White rabbits, of which I only have three left. I would rather not eat them as they have been with me for awhile but no one wants the breed in this area so cant sell them so she suggested just turning them loose. On 8 acres, she says, they should be happy.

As we discussed the reasons why that was a baaaaaad idea she said that after awhile they would turn brown anyway so would just be little brown wild rabbits so what was the harm. Well, not the three adults of course but their descendants would be brown.

Which is the question..................

Would the descendants of Florida White rabbits, with NO OTHER genetic influence, in a wild colony type setup, be brown or would they be white for always?

We do have a bet on but as its for who cooks Christmas dinner, its not all that big. :mrgreen:

 

[Zass]

Rew rabbits bred to rew rabbits can only produce rew rabbits. This is because to get rew one requires two copes of an extremely recessive gene. Since a rew already has two copies of this gene, that is the only gene on that locus that they even have to pass along.

Keeping them outside(in any weather) in cages does not make their babies turn brown.

If you kept them in a closed outside colony instead of cages their offspring would still always be rew.

What she is suggesting is that the act of removing the fences would change the very nature of their genetic codes.

That isn't going to happen.

Domestic rabbits cannot successfully breed with cottontails, so they cannot borrow any genes there, but...domestic rabbits that have been turned loose do have a remarkable way of finding more domestic rabbits to breed with. Since chestnut agouti (wild pattern) is a very dominant color, it tends to be the most common color produced when a rew rabbit is bred to anything that isn't rew.

 

[alforddm]

There have been cases of mutation reversal where a mutation mutates back to the original genetics. However, the chances of this happening are less than thechances of a new mutation because it has to happen a certain way in a specific spot. Not impossible but highly unlikely. Especially in the 3 rabbits we are talking about.

 

[FourRingCircus]

My REW was bred with a tri color and had a variety of colored offspring - none of them REW. Not sure what would come with those crossed with wild rabbits though...

 

[alforddm]

My REW was bred with a tri color and had a variety of colored offspring - none of them REW. Not sure what would come with those crossed with wild rabbits though...

That is because the non-REW didn't carry REW. Quite common and to be expected.

 

[FourRingCircus]

My REW was bred with a tri color and had a variety of colored offspring - none of them REW. Not sure what would come with those crossed with wild rabbits though...

That is because the non-REW didn't carry REW. Quite common and to be expected.

I think that's what GBov was asking though... what the decendants would do... would they all be brown/chestnut colored? Or how does that work crossing with a wild rabbit? If those offspring were to mate, would the REW pop back up eventually?

 

[Zass]

My REW was bred with a tri color and had a variety of colored offspring - none of them REW. Not sure what would come with those crossed with wild rabbits though...

That is because the non-REW didn't carry REW. Quite common and to be expected.

I think that's what GBov was asking though... what the decendants would do... would they all be brown/chestnut colored? Or how does that work crossing with a wild rabbit? If those offspring were to mate, would the REW pop back up eventually?

Wild US cottontails cannot successfully breed with the domestic species of rabbit we keep, which is descended from wild European rabbits.

 

[FourRingCircus]

Wild US cottontails cannot successfully breed with the domestic species of rabbit we keep, which is descended from wild European rabbits.

Really? Interesting to know!

 

[MaggieJ]

Zass is 100% correct in her posts on this thread.

 

[Preitler]

And if you happen to live where wild european rabbits roam, and one of these gets through the fence and knocks up your doe twice his size, the result may look like this:

I have no Idea where that white comes from, 2 out of 6 kits had some.

I had 2 does escaping and saw them for 3 years - they were a redish aguoti, all their offspring I saw was plain, wild agouti.

 

[GBov]

My REW was bred with a tri color and had a variety of colored offspring - none of them REW. Not sure what would come with those crossed with wild rabbits though...

That is because the non-REW didn't carry REW. Quite common and to be expected.

I think that's what GBov was asking though... what the decendants would do... would they all be brown/chestnut colored? Or how does that work crossing with a wild rabbit? If those offspring were to mate, would the REW pop back up eventually?

I meant just teh three REW rabbits living in a wild state with no other genetics added. Sorry if I wasnt clear enough.


From my understanding - limited I will admit - REW to REW will only produce REW but then again, if a pregnant domestic sow gets loose into the wild her litter will be born with stripes and grow up looking like wild pigs so rabbits living wild should revert to wild color eventually.

My stance in this bet is that they will always be REW but mums is that Nature protects its own and they would revert.

I might go the extra mile and rabbit proof a quarter acre of saw palmettos and turn them loose in it and see. That way they can be a wild - kinda - colony. But that wont be for awhile, much to do in the garden first.

Funnily enough I knew cottontails cant breed with domestic buns, I wonder where that bit of information came from? Thats the down side of being a reader, information just shows up in my brain. :lol:

 

[Dood]

From my understanding - limited I will admit - REW to REW will only produce REW

Correct

but then again, if a pregnant domestic sow gets loose into the wild her litter will be born with stripes and grow up looking like wild pigs.

:shock:

Incorrect, where did you hear this?

 

[GBov]

but then again, if a pregnant domestic sow gets loose into the wild her litter will be born with stripes and grow up looking like wild pigs.

:shock:

Incorrect, where did you hear this?

On a program on wild pigs seen many years ago. Is it not right then? Blast, feel a bit silly now.

 

[Zass]

If a domestic sow is bred by a feral one, there is a good chance there will very likely be genes present that are dominant to their own, much like how the wild pattern of rabbit coat(chestnut agouti) is genetically dominant to recessive genes like rew.

 

[Deer Heart]

Yeah the offspring, if only the FLW are their ancestors, will always be REW. Much to my sadness *has a herd of nothing but NZW* The offspring won't just all of a sudden decide to go against their genetics and start changing colors in unison. Guess your mom's stuck cooking x-mas dinner.

Being in FL, the wild rabbits are indeed cottontails - it is absolutely true that they will not breed with our domestic rabbits successfully and I can attest that wild boars bred to domestic pigs happens often here, they are a combo of both and are often extremely hard to tell apart. Like, they tend to look a lot like adolescent potbellies before they get their trademark bellies and chunkier faces.

 

[Legalyaker]

That is because wild boars here are not native but descendents of european pigs. Please do not release non native species into Florida. From what I can tell Florida has enough problems with non native species and I will bet it is very illegal to do so even if domesticated.

 

[Dood]

The European settlers already tried to establish wild colonies of European Rabbits in North America but unlike Australia, there were too many predators and much of our climate does not agree with their burrowing habits :cheesysmile:

 

[Legalyaker]

I know of 3 established colonies next to my mountain bike trails in Western Oregon. The 3 colonies are present every year for the last 3-4 years and the rabbits are black and agouti. Florida has a warmer climate than us. I know the original poster was just posing a hypothetical question but I hope it is not done. I don't think anyone expected the python problem in Florida either. However, they could be a new food source for them.

 

[GBov]

As my neighbor has a trencher I am going to do a 3ft trench around a quarter acre and fence it nice and high and turn them loose this spring. And then we shall see if they stay white or revert.

opcorn:

 

[Deer Heart]

As my neighbor has a trencher I am going to do a 3ft trench around a quarter acre and fence it nice and high and turn them loose this spring. And then we shall see if they stay white or revert.

opcorn:

I'm sorry if this comes off as offensive, but I honestly don't see that as being very humane to the rabbits. A secured colony area is one thing - but that arrangement makes them sitting ducks to owls, hawks, opossum, raccoons, fox, coyote, stray dogs, even feral cats.... and 3ft of trench isn't enough, I've had rabbits dig deeper than that in a day back when I had a couple in a enclosed colony setup. You would need the fence to also have an "L" shape at the bottom where buried so they hit the corner. Ranging chickens works because they can be secured to a coop every night (and even then you will still lose a couple to predators). You can't collect rabbits from that large of an area to secure them at night. Every night. IMHO, they won't last much longer than a week due to their color and size and if they do, they'd be petrified out of their minds and likely run in a panic at the sight of anything that moves, including you.

Personally, I just don't see that as a humane solution to the issue at hand and to me feels like avoiding responsibility on what to do with them entirely.

Also, if I am wrong and they are somehow successful and don't die, you would still be creating an even bigger issue. People who have actually tried it all seem to either report 100% death rates(or "missing" rabbits) in a short period of time or a devastating population EXPLOSION of 70+ rabbits that are out of control and terrorizing them and their neighborhood and had to be relentlessly hunted down with traps and guns. Their holes are dangerous and destructive, they will eat anything and everything in their paths until all you have is a desert (they eat grass roots and all so all grass would need to be replanted all over again).

Basically, I'm saying, I feel that's a REALLY bad idea.