Doe not receptive

R Buns said:

Vent checked. It's pink but I wouldn't say dark pink yet. I'll be keeping an eye on that though. I can give her greens. Have a fresh batch growing right now and some still in the garden.
I'd love to try giving them outside access. Unfortunately we have so many wild bunnies I hesitate to do that because of disease transmission.
I haven't seen any mounting from her kits yet. They are 5 weeks old. Was going for weaning them at 6 weeks giving her a few weeks off before the next litter. I'll still move forward with weaning at 6 weeks either way.
I had no idea a car ride could work on rabbits. We use that trick on hogs.
Thank you for the tips. Seems no matter how I do this I can't get the two does bred together.

Click to expand...

I would think 5 weeks would be fine, 5-6 weeks is when I usually re-breed. Maybe you just hit her on her off days. Watch the color - it should deepen - and see how she behaves. Every individual is a little different.

Yeah, the disease and parasite thing - that's one of the consolations of raising livestock and gardens in AK. Not as many nasties can survive the winters here (sometimes I almost agree with them...). When I get disgusted with fur mites, or with slugs, I remember what it was like in California and its gazillion pests and I feel better.

R Buns said:

Very interesting. I hadn't heard of this before now. So you don't have issues with too much fat collecting on their repro and not breeding back? Everything I've read says if you don't get them bred back in a timely manner you have increased issues with rebreeding problems.

Click to expand...

Except in spring, when everyone's hormones are running high, I've certainly found that my does are more likely to refuse the buck if I let them go too long without babies. I don't re-breed on a commercial schedule (3-4 weeks post-kindling), but if I let them go more than about 8-10 weeks, they get harder to re-breed; it takes more effort and convincing. It seems at that point that they're even worse if they still have their offspring in with them. Sometimes I'll leave does in with the dam for months if they're getting along, and I usually leave meat pen bunnies with the dam for 10 weeks. Those are the does I'm mostly likely to have to work at to get bred again. And yes, when I have does that have sat unoccupied for too long, they tend to stop producing, and we usually find they are obscenely f-u-l-l of fat, even though we limit feed.

I've also noticed that my does aren't at all fussy about breeding with offspring or other relatives... Once in a while a doe has an opinion about a particular buck, but mostly mine breed like rabbits. I don't keep high-maintenance does, though, or bucks for that matter. If they're too picky or slow, they move on, one way or another.

Rabbits naturally stay in production while they can, and usually re-breed quickly while the season lasts (make hay - and line the nest with it - while the sun shines, right?!). Does are receptive and will often breed again on the day they kindle. Most wild rabbits don't live more than a year or so, and wild does often have 20+ babies in one season. This may or may not be ideal for the doe herself, but it's how it goes in the race against time, predators and disease. Of course domestic rabbits are subsidized and protected, and have been bred for slightly different traits, and everybody's herd is a little different...you get what you breed. Meat breeds were originally selected to reproduce early and often, although I've found that extreme traits disappear pretty quickly without constant selection, so many homestead-type rabbits aren't as productive as lines that are intensively managed. Listening to other folks' experiences can be helpful, but figuring out what gives you the best balance between your rabbits' health and your meat production will come as you gain more experience. Growing pains are, in fact, a pain.

Good luck with the greens - hang in there!

Heat sterility can occur with three days over 90F, or five days over 85F. Here it may take as long as six weeks after the end of the excess heat for the bucks to be fertile again.

Since I breed for calm temperaments, I find a bred doe becoming difficult is often a good sign of pregnancy. Usually they become pleasant again after kindling. However, this varies with each rabbit, and difficult rabbits are not always good predictors of pregnancy.

Often, rabbits that are not handled when young can be difficult as adults, they're just scared. Handling your kits when young may help solve this problem. I've raised very sweet New Zealand reds in the past, it surely helps to choose the most pleasant kits to be your next generation of breeders. It is an inheritable trait, so there is hope, even when you start with a difficult-to-handle line.

Here, November and December are difficult months to breed. Even hard-to-breed does are more receptive during those first warm days of spring here.

A friend of mine was having much difficulty getting her does to breed. She decided to change to a colony set-up, and suddenly she had seventy kits, in the middle of summer heat! The bucks kept cool sprawling on the cool concrete floor, and were still fertile.

There is often a problem with the newest-and-greatest new fad breed. While the breed may indeed have some great traits, because the breed is 'valuable', breeders often breed animals that should have been culled, because the babies will sell. So animals with poor conformation, poor health, or poor temperament end up in the breeding pool. It's a common occurrence in every type of livestock/pet breeding. By the time a breed becomes commonplace, people tend to do a better job of culling for quality. So I wouldn't necessarily blame the Tamuk breed, it may just be a lack of good culling. But you can do that once you get your does to breed, choose the rabbits with the best combination of conformation, growth rate, health, and temperament. In a few years, you should be much closer to what you wanted in the first place. As the old saying goes, "Choose the best, cull the rest."

Alaska Satin said:

I would think 5 weeks would be fine, 5-6 weeks is when I usually re-breed. Maybe you just hit her on her off days. Watch the color - it should deepen - and see how she behaves. Every individual is a little different.

Click to expand...

Her color right now is getting lighter.

Alaska Satin said:

Yeah, the disease and parasite thing - that's one of the consolations of raising livestock and gardens in AK. Not as many nasties can survive the winters here (sometimes I almost agree with them...). When I get disgusted with fur mites, or with slugs, I remember what it was like in California and its gazillion pests and I feel better.

Click to expand...

Always good to look on the bright side.

Alaska Satin said:

Except in spring, when everyone's hormones are running high, I've certainly found that my does are more likely to refuse the buck if I let them go too long without babies. I don't re-breed on a commercial schedule (3-4 weeks post-kindling), but if I let them go more than about 8-10 weeks, they get harder to re-breed; it takes more effort and convincing. It seems at that point that they're even worse if they still have their offspring in with them. Sometimes I'll leave does in with the dam for months if they're getting along, and I usually leave meat pen bunnies with the dam for 10 weeks. Those are the does I'm mostly likely to have to work at to get bred again. And yes, when I have does that have sat unoccupied for too long, they tend to stop producing, and we usually find they are obscenely f-u-l-l of fat, even though we limit feed.

I've also noticed that my does aren't at all fussy about breeding with offspring or other relatives... Once in a while a doe has an opinion about a particular buck, but mostly mine breed like rabbits. I don't keep high-maintenance does, though, or bucks for that matter. If they're too picky or slow, they move on, one way or another.

Click to expand...

Good to know. She's getting a list going of reasons she won't stay. I'd really like to get a couple more litters before replacing her but won't be keeping any offspring from her. Just not worth the headache. I try and not hold specific things like the ear mites against her thought.

Alaska Satin said:

Rabbits naturally stay in production while they can, and usually re-breed quickly while the season lasts (make hay - and line the nest with it - while the sun shines, right?!). Does are receptive and will often breed again on the day they kindle. Most wild rabbits don't live more than a year or so, and wild does often have 20+ babies in one season. This may or may not be ideal for the doe herself, but it's how it goes in the race against time, predators and disease. Of course domestic rabbits are subsidized and protected, and have been bred for slightly different traits, and everybody's herd is a little different...you get what you breed. Meat breeds were originally selected to reproduce early and often, although I've found that extreme traits disappear pretty quickly without constant selection, so many homestead-type rabbits aren't as productive as lines that are intensively managed. Listening to other folks' experiences can be helpful, but figuring out what gives you the best balance between your rabbits' health and your meat production will come as you gain more experience. Growing pains are, in fact, a pain.

Good luck with the greens - hang in there!

Click to expand...

Thank you. It's frustrating when you always hear the saying they breed like rabbits yet they've been far more effort than most other smaller animals we've had. Kind of like the saying "goats will eat anything". This is also not true.

judymac said:

Heat sterility can occur with three days over 90F, or five days over 85F. Here it may take as long as six weeks after the end of the excess heat for the bucks to be fertile again.

Click to expand...

Good to know it's that low of a temperature and how long. Thank you.

judymac said:

Since I breed for calm temperaments, I find a bred doe becoming difficult is often a good sign of pregnancy. Usually they become pleasant again after kindling. However, this varies with each rabbit, and difficult rabbits are not always good predictors of pregnancy.

Click to expand...

Her personality has certainly shifted since kindling. Won't say she's super friendly but definitely an improvement.

judymac said:

Often, rabbits that are not handled when young can be difficult as adults, they're just scared. Handling your kits when young may help solve this problem. I've raised very sweet New Zealand reds in the past, it surely helps to choose the most pleasant kits to be your next generation of breeders. It is an inheritable trait, so there is hope, even when you start with a difficult-to-handle line.

Click to expand...

I do believe this is likely a huge factor in this does issues along with her health setbacks. They all seem to not have been handled much. Guess that's the drawback of buying from a meat breeder who has a huge operation.

judymac said:

Here, November and December are difficult months to breed. Even hard-to-breed does are more receptive during those first warm days of spring here.

Click to expand...

That could be an issue here too. Not sure. So far every issue has delayed any real production (except this first litter) till it's almost into ridiculous category. These rabbits are touted to be so much more heat tolerant and breakable with big litters and fast growth and so far that hasn't been our findings. Not saying that isn't the case as we've seemed to have quite a few setbacks since getting back into this but the frustration level is pretty high at this point. Over 6 months and only 1 litter to show for it when buying a breeding trio is a bit frustrating.

judymac said:

A friend of mine was having much difficulty getting her does to breed. She decided to change to a colony set-up, and suddenly she had seventy kits, in the middle of summer heat! The bucks kept cool sprawling on the cool concrete floor, and were still fertile.

Click to expand...

Our wild rabbits do just fine reproducing in the heat.

judymac said:

There is often a problem with the newest-and-greatest new fad breed. While the breed may indeed have some great traits, because the breed is 'valuable', breeders often breed animals that should have been culled, because the babies will sell. So animals with poor conformation, poor health, or poor temperament end up in the breeding pool. It's a common occurrence in every type of livestock/pet breeding. By the time a breed becomes commonplace, people tend to do a better job of culling for quality. So I wouldn't necessarily blame the Tamuk breed, it may just be a lack of good culling. But you can do that once you get your does to breed, choose the rabbits with the best combination of conformation, growth rate, health, and temperament. In a few years, you should be much closer to what you wanted in the first place. As the old saying goes, "Choose the best, cull the rest."

Click to expand...

This is definitely a possibility. It's hard to get them here without going through this specific breeder. I'm not willing to travel to other states to get any at this point in time. Especially after this experience so far.
Thank you for the response and advice.

R Buns said:

Kind of like the saying "goats will eat anything". This is also not true.

Click to expand...

I have hilarious memories of trying to force feed a goat an apple once. Picky things...

Great news. I was able to get this doe covered. Persistence paid off hopefully. The second try she was having no part of it. I'm hopeful once (3 fall offs) was enough with her.
The second doe kindled 2 kits. Very disappointing. Not sure how I will proceed with her. This is her first litter. Not sure if it's worth trying again with her. Has anyone had a larger litter the second time around or is it pretty consistent if they have a small litter than they will continue to have a small litter?

the doe with just two... I'd breed her back immediately. Two kits will be fairly big at four weeks (and they will do fine without momma) as long as you get them started early and don't mess around with what you are feeding them. You'll be more prone to getting a bigger litter as she'll have lost some fat from kindling and feeding kits.

ladysown said:

the doe with just two... I'd breed her back immediately. Two kits will be fairly big at four weeks (and they will do fine without momma) as long as you get them started early and don't mess around with what you are feeding them. You'll be more prone to getting a bigger litter as she'll have lost some fat from kindling and feeding kits.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much. That makes perfect sense actually. She went a fair bit of time without a litter due to the initial buck issues then heat sterility. How soon can she be bred back if she's receptive? Thank you again for the help.

I'd breed her back immediately.

R Buns said:

Todays update: Hopefully yesterdays breeding/fall offs was enough. She's back to being as small a ball of rabbit as possible. Talked to the buck a little but not receptive to breeding.

Click to expand...

Late to this discussion but wanted to add a little.
I receive the ARBA magazine 4 times a year due to being a member. Occasionally their is something that is really valuable in it.
There was a graph showing estrogen levels in does by month that was a real eye opener. Zero zip Nada in December a touch in January but a very dramatic upward slope by February, March and April.
Then in August a slight downward slope that turns steep in September and October. It all makes sense if you think about seasonally available foods.

R Buns said:

Hello all!
I have a Tamuk doe who is absolutely not receptive to a buck. Her barn name is Witchy. I'm just trying to get a few litters out of her to pay for her purchase cost then she will be culled. I do not like her attitude at all. She's been with two bucks now and just huddles in the corner with her bum and head tucked as far as it can be. The other doe of the trio was bred just fine by the current buck. 3 fall offs followed by another 3 12 hours later. Any suggestions? I really need to get her bred close to the other doe if at all possible.
Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Concerning temporary heat sterility in bucks. I'm in Western Oregon which has a somewhat mild climate. My personal experience with heat sterility in bucks has been when it is over 90 to 95 or so. While we do hit those temperatures it isn't for long periods, usually for a few days and then it goes back down.

I would think if you live in a warmer climate the rabbits would adjust to it so temperatures in the 80's seems less problematic.
But if your in a climate that has dramatic shifts from cold to hot, maybe?
It would be interesting to discuss folks experiences related to their typical climate. Could be informative.
I will post a discussion elsewhere than this thread, see if we can share information and possibly begin to see patterns.

Alaska Satin said:

I don't bleach fouled nest boxes before moving them, and it doesn't seem to have been a problem; once I move the cleaned-out box to a different spot, the doe usually quits using it as a litter box. Personally, I haven't seen any evidence that the smell of urine encourages them to use that spot - that surely would be convenient for litter-training, but it's never worked that way for me. My does seem to pick a spot in their cage to relieve themselves, and if the box is inadvertently placed there, they'll use it for that. The smell of the kits' urine is in the box nearly from the day they're born, anyway.

However, I have had bleach apparently deter does from using the box again, so I skip the bleach now. (Plus, I don't know for sure that it's a real risk, but it makes me nervous to use bleach where it might combine with ammonia from urine to produce toxic chloramine fumes.) My boxes are wooden, and I clean them by scraping and scrubbing, and then set the box in the sunshine (if available!) for natural deodorizing and sterilization. UV kills!

I have had box-sitter does who don't pee in their boxes, but consistently leave a pile of poo in the front part of their boxes where they hang out. It offends my aesthetic sensibilities, but honestly it never seemed to cause any harm to the bunnies in the nest. In fact I've seen the kits crawling up and eating it, and I figure it's just priming their little guts with the doe's microfauna.

Click to expand...

I make a point to put my nest boxes out in summer to give them a good blast of UV light. It does seem to be an excellent sterilizer and deodorizer. I do the same thing with down quilts each year. And if not in a hurry for some reason I love to line dry sheets in summer, Love the way they smell.

ladysown said:

I'd breed her back immediately.

Click to expand...

Done. Can't believe how receptive she was. Also can't believe how big her two kits are getting in just a few days. Far bigger than the other does larger litter grew. You weren't kidding about the growth. I would have waited for several more weeks to try and breed her back at the least but honestly until I read your posts I was pretty sure I was just going to process her and cut our losses. Thank you

dizzybumblebee said:

Late to this discussion but wanted to add a little.
I receive the ARBA magazine 4 times a year due to being a member. Occasionally their is something that is really valuable in it.
There was a graph showing estrogen levels in does by month that was a real eye opener. Zero zip Nada in December a touch in January but a very dramatic upward slope by February, March and April.
Then in August a slight downward slope that turns steep in September and October. It all makes sense if you think about seasonally available foods.

Click to expand...

Or daylength. Chickens also start laying again when the days get longer (anywhere between dec. 26th and jan 9th mine did). Horse started to shed coat late jan/early feb (yes with snow on the ground).