Fighting Stasis? Help? Update: Bizarre stone?!?

I realize I haven't been here in a long time, but I'm trying to make sure I'm doing all I can for my dutch doe (River). It appears that she's fighting stasis.

After changing her litterbox a couple of days ago (Friday), I realized yesterday that she was producing only a few small poops. I've seen this before, on occasion. Maybe a rabbit isn't drinking enough, maybe their water bottle has gotten clogged, so I did what I always have done in this situation. I checked her water bottle to make sure it was flowing and I went outside to harvest some dandelion greens for her. She drank some water out of the bowl and scarfed down the greens (I gave her 3 leaves). A little while later, I realized she was making this odd 'straining' motion. I've never seen this before. The only thing she was passing from her bottom was a little liquid, and she would pass a little urine each time she did this. I got her out into a large floor pen, so she could move around and gave her some abdominal massage, which caused her to do more of the straining thing. She was starting to look uncomfortable, sitting huddled and shivering. I continued to monitor. I dumped out her litter box. A while later I gave her more greens dipped in water, which she ate (eating is a good sign, right?)

I put her back in her hutch as a while later, I noticed that she had passed a few normal sized poops. Yay!! I gave her more greens and left for a while. I came back later and saw that she had passed a few little pebbles. Still progress, right? I gave her a few more greens and a couple of dandelion heads. She continued to scarf this stuff down greedily, but hasn't seemed to have touched her pellets and her water bottle hasn't gone down any. I still have the bowl of water for her drink from in her cage. This morning I didn't seem much progress in her litter box. She seems more alert and comfortable physically, but I went ahead and gave her a little simethicone (.6ml) and a few more greens to help stimulate her, as well as getting her out in the floor pen and giving abdominal massage. She is still doing some of the straining.

So, am I doing the right thing? Should I be doing more? Less? Taking her to the vet seems like a waste of time and money. I'm concerned that she may be stopped up from chewing on her stuffed rabbit (which I have now removed). I hadn't realized that she had chewed half of its ear off but if she were completely blocked, she wouldn't be passing ANY poops, right?

I wanted to add that all of my rabbits have constant access to timothy hay. I saw her nibbling a little of it earlier.

Hi, welcome back

Hm, did you hear any gurgling sounds when massaging her? Anyway, simethicone, massages and the rest doesn't hurt and may help.

If it is something like wool block - in that case people give 1-2ml oil, I've read mineral oil but can't tell what exactly that is (search here gives lots of hits), but I've seen linseed and olive oil mentioned too, I think.

Hi Susie! Nice to see you back, but I wish it was for a happier reason.

I'm glad you mentioned the timothy hay - I was wondering about that because it can be a big help.

Mineral oil is laxative, but you must be careful she doesn't aspirate it. Olive oil might be a safer choice. You could try giving her a big bunch of wet dandelion greens. You could also try prickly lettuce if you can find some. It's a way of getting liquids into her. You could also try giving her a second dish of water with a bit something nice added: apple juice, herbal tea--something to encourage her to drink more. Be sure she has plain water as well though.

You're doing the right thing getting her to exercise and using massage.

http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/weedgui ... .php?id=63

:good-luck:

Nice to see you again.

Pineapple is said to be helpful in cases of wool block and it won't hurt anything although it is high in sugar. It has enzymes that are said to help break down the blockage. Pumpkin is also given sometimes for stasis. You can feed canned pumpkin as long as it is true canned pumpkin and not the pie filling.

I hope that River is feeling better soon.

Preitler":3k2un7wk said:

Hi, welcome back

Hm, did you hear any gurgling sounds when massaging her? Anyway, simethicone, massages and the rest doesn't hurt and may help.

If it is something like wool block - in that case people give 1-2ml oil, I've read mineral oil but can't tell what exactly that is (search here gives lots of hits), but I've seen linseed and olive oil mentioned too, I think.

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I didn't hear any gugling. Her belly seems larger than normal (although that's kind of hard to gauge as she gotten sort of fat - no, she is definitely not pregnant) but her belly is soft.

-- Sun May 14, 2017 12:30 pm --

alforddm":3k2un7wk said:

Nice to see you again.

Pineapple is said to be helpful in cases of wool block and it won't hurt anything although it is high in sugar. It has enzymes that are said to help break down the blockage. Pumpkin is also given sometimes for stasis. You can feed canned pumpkin as long as it is true canned pumpkin and not the pie filling.

I hope that River is feeling better soon.

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Thank you. I looked for pumpkin last night, sadly it is not available this time of year. I even looked at baby food, thinking I might find some there, but they only have mixtures, like Squash-sweet potato-pumpkin and I didn't know if that would be safe for her. I didn't know about pineapple. I will see if I can find some for her to try. She may refuse it. She's picky. <br /><br /> -- Sun May 14, 2017 12:39 pm -- <br /><br />

MaggieJ":3k2un7wk said:

You could try giving her a big bunch of wet dandelion greens. You could also try prickly lettuce if you can find some.

:good-luck:

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I'm timid about giving a big bunch of dandelion greens. They don't get fresh greens often and I fear giving her a lot will make things worse? I've given her more fresh greens in the last day than she normally gets, but I do feel it's encouraging that she's eating them readily and she's moving around. I will give her a larger quantity if you feel it's safe. Have you folks ever seen a rabbit 'strain' like that? Also, reassure me that I'm not overreacting here. This is definitely a rabbit emergency that requires intervention, right?

Maybe not a Red Alert but certainly a cause for concern. I've heard of people using large amounts of wet dandelions to clear a rabbit out, but since all mine were naturally fed I was passing on hearsay. Naturally fed rabbits hardly ever have stasis. Personally, I'd at least increase the amount. It's taking a bit of a chance, perhaps, but so is not doing it. I can only suggest what I'd do . . . you'll have to sift the info you get and decide for yourself.

Strange that you can't buy canned pumpkin this time of year. The whole idea of canning is to have it available out of season. Maybe you should snag a couple of cans next time you see it in the stores.

Sure hope River gets through this, Susie! :clover: :clover: :clover:

MaggieJ":izd2lvih said:

Maybe not a Red Alert but certainly a cause for concern. I've heard of people using large amounts of wet dandelions to clear a rabbit out, but since all mine were naturally fed I was passing on hearsay. Naturally fed rabbits hardly ever have stasis. Personally, I'd at least increase the amount. It's taking a bit of a chance, perhaps, but so is not doing it. I can only suggest what I'd do . . . you'll have to sift the info you get and decide for yourself.

Strange that you can't buy canned pumpkin this time of year. The whole idea of canning is to have it available out of season. Maybe you should snag a couple of cans next time you see it in the stores.

Sure hope River gets through this, Susie! :clover: :clover: :clover:

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Thank you. That makes me feel better, maybe I don't have to be in total danger mode. I figure as long as she's eating and passing SOME stools, she's not critical? I did just feed her a fair amount of dandelion leaves. She's not super active, but she's alert and the straining thing seems to have reduced, although she's still leaking urine a bit. I would think it's a kidney/UTI problem, but I don't think that would affect her stools? I'm going to continue monitoring throughout the day and offering her wet greens. She seems to have no interest in pellets right now and I haven't seen her drinking, but hopefully I caught this in time and she will recover. I really do appreciate the feedback! I can say this much, RT certainly did a LOT to help me with my rabbits. I have already absorbed a lot of info from here and tend to see problems when they start. I already have certain supplies on hand and I can be proactive. It's a good thing too because when I called the local vet yesterday, they weren't helpful at all. :/

Did you by chance ask about the canned pumpkin - it's not always where you think it might be... in the fall it's pretty prominent, but the rest of the year it's tucked away. I think maybe the baking section with things like pie filling?

Susie570":3k6pbacw said:

Thank you. I looked for pumpkin last night, sadly it is not available this time of year. I even looked at baby food, thinking I might find some there, but they only have mixtures, like Squash-sweet potato-pumpkin and I didn't know if that would be safe for her. I didn't know about pineapple. I will see if I can find some for her to try. She may refuse it. She's picky.

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Bananas also work really well for wool block, so maybe they'd also help with stasis? My bunnies are generally picky eaters, too, but they'll never turn down a banana.

FourRingCircus":i416xb75 said:

Did you by chance ask about the canned pumpkin - it's not always where you think it might be... in the fall it's pretty prominent, but the rest of the year it's tucked away. I think maybe the baking section with things like pie filling?

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I didn't even think of that! I'll try to check back and see. I looked in the canned veg section.

-- Mon May 15, 2017 9:17 am --

Winterwolf":i416xb75 said:

Bananas also work really well for wool block, so maybe they'd also help with stasis? My bunnies are generally picky eaters, too, but they'll never turn down a banana.

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Banana? I thought banana was 'binding' (but maybe that's just for humans?) River is the only one of my rabbits who has ever been willing to eat banana, and that was while she was lactating. She would have gobbled up an entire banana if I had allowed her to (only little pieces were ever given). Most of the time though, she won't touch them. I have one rabbit who will, only rarely even eat fresh greens. She's timid and she will only eat hay and pellets, and only when you're not looking at her.

My other rabbits love fresh greens and dandelion tops when they can get them, but turn their noses up at everything else I've ever offered them.

-- Mon May 15, 2017 9:27 am --

Here's our poop progress from yesterday until this morning... it's not much but it's something.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/83ovvrrstg4ro6a/berries.jpg

Here's a picture of River during her floor time this morning.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5ihi47b3yhzdqc/river.jpg

Here's a short video showing the 'straining' motion I was talking about. She's not doing it as intensely as she was Saturday.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/36i0cdzmui77b ... 094153.mp4

She took a few more wet greens this morning, but didn't seem very enthusiastic about it and refused after a couple of leaves. I haven't seen her produce any cecals (of course if she is producing them, she may be eating them, she's usually pretty fastidious) so I've been giving her some bene-bac just in case.

I also gave her a little syringe water this morning. She wasn't happy about that, but I want to make sure she's taking in enough water. She doesn't seem dehydrated, and she sipped some water from her bowl last night for me, but she's definitely not drinking as much as she normally does. Keep River in your thoughts. <3 :bunnyhop:

(sorry for the links, I can't get the images to show from Dropbox) :/ <br /><br /> -- Mon May 15, 2017 12:56 pm -- <br /><br /> Still very worried about River.

I was hoping to see more progress by now but she hasn't pooped at all today that I can see. I've gotten her to eat a little bit of greens, but she isn't eating as well as she was yesterday. She's still alert and she must be getting hydrated somehow because when I held her on her back to look at her bottom, she peed all over me. Fortunately I was able to get a good look at her pee and it's not sludgy or particularly dark or anything. I gave her a dose of symethicone in case she has gas building up. Watching and waiting. :/

I agree it is very worrisome that she isn't eating as well today.

I'm not a House Rabbit Society fan, but some of the suggestions regarding massage etc. in the link below sound as though they might be useful.
http://rabbit.org/gastrointestinal-stas ... -killer-2/

If you get her through this, you might consider putting her on a high fibre, low concentrate diet. (More grass hay, less pelleted food.) In the pictures you posted she looks very thick through the body.

River is basically no longer accepting food or passing any poops. I'm not going to panic because I've read about buns doing this for several days and then recovering. Still very worried about her. I'm going to keep trying to make sure she gets fluids. She is still fairly active, but I wouldn't call her perky. :/ I'm going to try to get her some pineapple and pumpkin, but not sure I can get it down her. <br /><br /> -- Mon May 15, 2017 4:20 pm -- <br /><br />

MaggieJ":1hyj82o9 said:

I agree it is very worrisome that she isn't eating as well today.

I'm not a House Rabbit Society fan, but some of the suggestions regarding massage etc. in the link below sound as though they might be useful.
http://rabbit.org/gastrointestinal-stas ... -killer-2/

If you get her through this, you might consider putting her on a high fibre, low concentrate diet. (More grass hay, less pelleted food.) In the pictures you posted she looks very thick through the body.

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Yes, she has gotten heavier than she should be, which of course can cause problems in itself. :/

If you can get the canned pumpkin, perhaps you could dilute it with water and syringe it into her mouth through the gap between the front teeth and the molars.

It's good she's still drinking, but I'd be happier if she'd take something that would help get things moving again.

The instructions in the HRS link for massage and/or enema might prove helpful. I only ever had one rabbit that I think may have had GI stasis and unfortunately I was a newb and he was dead before I realized there was a serious problem. That was back when I was still feeding pellets. So I do not have much first-hand experience when it comes to digestive problems in rabbits.

Right. I didn't want have to try the enema route, but may give it a shot tonight. Also going to see if I can find that pumpkin!

-- Mon May 15, 2017 9:21 pm --

So.... update.

I just came in a little while ago to check on River after going to the grocery store. I did find pure pumpkin (in the baking section!!), as well as purchasing a dosing syringe and a bulb to do a little enema if needed.

I come in and see River looking more relaxed and peer into her cage to check for poops. I see the most bizarre thing.

There is a large wet spot in the hay where she had been laying today and strange hard ball laying in the middle of it. It also appears that she has passed a little bit of poop in her litter box. After doing a little searching online, the only thing I can figure is that this is a bladder stone. It's a little over half an inch and heavy. I have NO idea how she could have passed it.

I went out in the yard and found her a few dandelion leaves which she ate up vigorously.

I am kind of freaking out right now. :shock: :shock: :shock:
At the same time, I'm really hoping that this was the issue. I can't think of any other explanation for how this object managed to appear in her cage. That is FREAKY.

I'm attaching some links to pictures.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsml59kztc9wd ... 215407.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/woj81vhi6bpea ... 215928.jpg

I think I will go ahead and offer her some pumpkin, just in case???

(Pumpkin was offered. She nibbled it a bit, but wasn't interested and if she's willing to eat on her own, I think syringe feeding might not be a good idea?) Anyway, I guess I'm going to get some sleep. Hopefully, she will still be improving when I see her in the AM.

That is weird! But I agree that a bladder stone/kidney stone is a strong possibility. The pain would have been bad enough to keep her from eating . . . and the drop off in poops could be a result rather than a cause. So hard to know for sure, but if she seems more comfortable and is eating the dandelions I wouldn't force feed the pumpkin at the moment.

Poor bunny! And poor you, having to deal with this, Susie!

Off you go to get some sleep! :zzz:

I'm sleeping soon. Of course now I'm worried that she has internal injuries from passing this monstrous thing. She looked happy enough when I left, but of course the thought is lingering. Ugh. Hoping for a happy, hungry bun when I see her tomorrow. <br /><br /> -- Tue May 16, 2017 8:33 am -- <br /><br /> Just wanted to give another update. River seems to be feeling much better this morning (poor thing!!!). I still wouldn't say she's 100%, but she did pass some poops last night, not a lot and they're tiny, but it's something and she's interested in eating again, at least she's eating the greens I'm offering her. I'm not seeing any sign of blood in her cage, maybe just one tiny smear, kind of hard to tell, so I'm feeling optimistic. Still can't believe she passed that huge stone. I can't even imagine a person passing that. I've seen a person dealing with kidney stones and even small ones are agonizing. If I were religious, I would call this a miracle. Of course things could always take a turn for the worse, and she still isn't pooping normally, but wow.

This is probably a post that should be kept for others who might be facing the same situation, although I can't imagine most rabbits being able to pass something like this, at least people might have an idea what they are dealing with.

I'm glad River is eating again.... any updates?
opcorn: opcorn:

Susie570":11ovpf0l said:

This is probably a post that should be kept for others who might be facing the same situation, although I can't imagine most rabbits being able to pass something like this, at least people might have an idea what they are dealing with.

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I definetly will remember this whenever I may read something like "straining", or so.

I hope River is doing better :good-luck:

River is doing much better, thanks! She's acting normal and although the quantity and quality of her stools is still not what I would like it to be (small, dark) it's obvious that her bowels are moving along regularly again. I'm still pushing some greens and such, but she's enjoying them much more now. I can't imagine how close of a call this was.

I've since read that feeding cranberry tablets help in the prevention of kidney stones in rabbits, so I plan to get some for her

Also, I've listed the stone for sale on eBay, with 10% of the proceeds going to RT (assuming it sells).

I really appreciate the help and support!