Pasteurella....I've never done this before!

My litter of kits will be three weeks old on Tuesday - and mom has white boogers! OH NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

At this point, the plan is to call the vet tomorrow and hook up some Baytril or other antibiotic for mom. I think i'll move her someplace else, and clean up the original cage and keep the kits there as soon as it makes sense for them to stop nursing.

Will they be okay at three weeks? They've been chowing down on hay and a few have gotten the hang of pellets, but i'm not really sure. I'm all for breeding for good immune systems...but can't pasteurella totally wipe out kits - good immune system or no? Can you give the antibiotics to the kits, if they start to show symptoms? Would it be stupid to do that as a preventative? Between mama and my screwtail doe, my breeding program is starting to look pretty sparse. I really don't want to lose this whole litter.

If Mom gets better on the antibiotics, I suppose I could sell her as a wooler, but I don't want anyone to have a wooler that needs medication to get by, so I guess I'll eat her if it doesn't work out. (and we were really starting to get along!)<br /><br />__________ Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:55 am __________<br /><br />ugh, so conflicted about what to do. Went to check on her again and she seems fine - paws not matted. I have some ciprofloxacin tablets left over from a prescription for my dog. Looks like I have enough for a round to last about 2 weeks if I listen to google.

I'm pretty sure it's Pasteurella multocida...Now remembering the breeder mentioning putting down a rabbit for abcesses. That's the strain for abcesses too, right? Should have noticed the red flag!

Does the pry-er-open-and-toss-it-down method work for rabbits? Would it be safe to dissolve in her water? Or do I really need to get it in a different form from the vet? Should I just quarantine and watch with no drugs instead?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?!?!?!?!??!?

remove mom immediately.

isolate far away.

medication tends not to work, just pushes it into hiding. Don't medicate, just cull to the freezer. You can use the meat. Just cook well.

Leave kits where they are. if you can provide some barrier around the cage.

Gave them hay, pellets.. and they should do JUST Fine. Just relax. I find from 17 days and on they tend to do fine without mom. They might need some supplementing with oatmeal and probiotics. (I find at this age the powdered probios that you can get for kittens) works quite well mixed with oatmeal.

Cull the mom, and cull the kits....disinfect EVERYTHING....search my posts for my experience with trying to keep kits...3 months of putting down kit after kit as they each came down with it...If the mom is blowing snot, then the kits are all exposed and likely carrying it....

Mom is officially culled, and now i'm crying like a baby. I'm too much of a sissy for this!

I've been reading a lot...and am under no illusions that every one of my rabbits has not been exposed. Looking back, I should have known from the moment I picked her up in Idaho - she was sneezing within an hour of picking her up. I just assumed, no white snot = rabbit is fine. I should have turned around and dropped them all back off.

I was reading about how you can create a disease resistant herd by culling only the animals that show symptoms. Sorry Oneacre, but I just don't have the heart to kill kits that aren't sick (yet). Yours is probably good advice, and I know it sounds like i'm repeating your mistake, but maybe I just have to learn stuff the hard way.

Sorry for being such a wuss -- I got a bunch of woolers for this exact reason! Going to go take a shower and bawl some more.

-HRanchito":7b8bfib6 said:

Mom is officially culled, and now i'm crying like a baby. I'm too much of a sissy for this!

I've been reading a lot...and am under no illusions that every one of my rabbits has not been exposed. Looking back, I should have known from the moment I picked her up in Idaho - she was sneezing within an hour of picking her up. I just assumed, no white snot = rabbit is fine. I should have turned around and dropped them all back off.

I was reading about how you can create a disease resistant herd by culling only the animals that show symptoms. Sorry Oneacre, but I just don't have the heart to kill kits that aren't sick (yet). Yours is probably good advice, and I know it sounds like i'm repeating your mistake, but maybe I just have to learn stuff the hard way.

Sorry for being such a wuss -- I got a bunch of woolers for this exact reason! Going to go take a shower and bawl some more.

Click to expand...

Sorry that you had to do that. I culled an entire line of rabbits last month, a litter of ten (minus 1) and three from another litter because I had three that had split penises. This was a litter of 4 does that I really needed to have enough meat to supply raw feeders. Not a pleasant thing to do.

Hello Ranchito,
Do NOT toss the Baby out with the bath water!
I would NOT cull every kit and the Dam.
Cull only the rabbits which are showing symptoms.
Yes! Isolate them from the rest of the herd,
but DO NOT cull them, you may be doing yourself a great disservice.
Amongst those kits are bound to be at least one or two which are
resistant and will not show symptoms. retain these and keep a close eye,
should they show any symptoms of any illness at all then you should cull them
but do not cull unless you see the symptoms. You may have the start
of you disease resistant herd already within your grasp.
Yes, you will be breeding and culling on an intense basis,
but by doing so you will reach your goal.
like I said: Don't toss the baby out with the bath water.
What you are seeking is not easy but with attention and strict culling
it can be done!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

YES! That is quite true was ottersatin said.

You do need to isolate AND keep isolated until after any you retain kindles for the first time.

BUT that fact is the kits are just three weeks old. Sometimes at that age they are still protected by the immunity in their mothers milk and won't necessarily have the disease. MIND...you get any kits in this time of stress that get goopy eyes, sneeze, or have anything off with them - cull them to your freezer and sell them as dog or snake food NOT cat food.

I know I sound heartless...but it is for good reason. People always talk about breeding for resistance, yada-yada...yes, I know. I TRIED....I treated with the recommended ABX. When that did not work, I culled three does and a buck and kept only the three litters. I weaned them at 2.5 weeks and did everything that is/was suggested. I read EVERY scrap of literature I could find about saving kits from p.multocida infected does....I just could not bring myself to put the kits down. Over the next three months, I watched them closely...at 12 wks of age, they started displaying symptoms one after the other and I had to put them all down one by one...it was heartbreaking, excruciating and horrible. I should have just done it and gotten it over with. What I learned, is that I DON'T want to start my herd with someone else's inferior rabbits and have to work my way toward a resistant herd. I wanted rabbits from a breeder whose animals ALREADY displayed resistance...so that is what I did. After disinfecting EVERYTHING, I started completely over and was very careful with what I brought in. Any rabbit showing symptoms that *could* be pasteurella goes to freezer camp...my point is simply this...is it worth it in the long run to risk the health of your entire herd for one litter? Likely not....Just know that you will have to keep those kits isolated until they hit breeding age and kindle their first litters. The stress of kindling is usually what will bring a latent infection to the surface. You will have to be scrupulous about disinfecting and not cross contaminating, for the next 6-9 months.

__________ Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:47 am __________

-HRanchito":3dz7jg30 said:

Mom is officially culled, and now i'm crying like a baby. I'm too much of a sissy for this!

I've been reading a lot...and am under no illusions that every one of my rabbits has not been exposed. Looking back, I should have known from the moment I picked her up in Idaho - she was sneezing within an hour of picking her up. I just assumed, no white snot = rabbit is fine. I should have turned around and dropped them all back off.

I was reading about how you can create a disease resistant herd by culling only the animals that show symptoms. Sorry Oneacre, but I just don't have the heart to kill kits that aren't sick (yet). Yours is probably good advice, and I know it sounds like i'm repeating your mistake, but maybe I just have to learn stuff the hard way.

Sorry for being such a wuss -- I got a bunch of woolers for this exact reason! Going to go take a shower and bawl some more.

Click to expand...

I cried like a baby with each one of the 24 that I dispatched....

Feeling better today, and hoping the rabbit bbq tomorrow makes me feel even better. Mom's older juniors came from the same crappy rabbitry that she did, and they didn't show any symptoms for the whole 30+ hours of travel and the whole three weeks i've had em. (knock on wood). At least I can be a little bit optimistic about the kits if their brother and sis could get past it.

-HRanchito":3ladcwzh said:

Feeling better today, and hoping the rabbit bbq tomorrow makes me feel even better. Mom's older juniors came from the same crappy rabbitry that she did, and they didn't show any symptoms for the whole 30+ hours of travel and the whole three weeks i've had em. (knock on wood). At least I can be a little bit optimistic about the kits if their brother and sis could get past it.

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Keep in mind what I said though, the stress of kindling was likely what brought out the latent infection in your doe. You won't know for sure about those Jr.s until they kindle, or face some other equally strong stressor...I would keep them in quarantine and FAR away from any other rabbits you already have. I would care for them LAST and I would immediately shower and wash my clothes after caring for them....<br /><br />__________ Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:57 am __________<br /><br />Read this document by a rabbit savvy vet, who is also a long time rabbit breeder, in Hawaii...

View attachment Alfred Mina Pasteurella.docx

-HRanchito":1x83ju95 said:

she was sneezing within an hour of picking her up. I just assumed, no white snot = rabbit is fine. I should have turned around and dropped them all back off.

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When I bought my rabbits, I didn't know that white snot indicated pasteurella. I had waited months to get my rabbits, since the breeder is about 450 miles away, and we coordinated delivery with a business trip she had to make. I drove a couple hundred miles to meet her, and noticed that there was a small glob of white snot on the buck's nose.

I took him anyway, and didn't notice any sneezing or ever see any snot again. About 7 months later he developed a huge abscess and I had to cull him.

All of the other rabbits in my herd are free of symptoms, although I did cull one kit recently due to a snotty nose. The other kits in the litter remained healthy.

Supposedly just about every rabbit out there has been exposed or is a carrier of pasteurella, so it boils down to their individual resistance to it. I believe all of your rabbits are from the same breeder, so they have all been exposed. I would keep a closed herd for 6 months to a year to determine how virulent the strain is. I would immediately cull (as in kill) any that show symptoms- DO NOT try to treat with antibiotics or rehome them. If they have a high mortality rate as OAF did, you can then cull the entire line, disinfect everything, cry for weeks, and then start over with a new herd.

I'm sorry for your loss- livestock keeping has many joys, but the grim reality is that there are many hard decisions that come along with it. Hopefully you will get lucky and not have to make many of those hard decisions for a time.

__________ Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:06 am __________

OneAcreFarm":1x83ju95 said:

Read this document by a rabbit savvy vet, who is also a long time rabbit breeder, in Hawaii...

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Interesting- remember Floyd's abscess appeared to be subcutaneous, but it was actually in the joint (armpit)? Pasteurella for sure...

Yep, definitely will be a closed herd. I probably won't sell any for pets either until they reach at least senior age with no symptoms.

I got three of my bunrabs from a different breeder, and they have been no trouble at all. A very noticeably different level of care in a lot of ways. The does have actually been more or less separate from the rest, mostly out of luck rather than me thinking properly about it, but the buck I put next door to the other juniors. There will be a bunch of rearranging over the next few days. Will probably separate everyone from everyone else.

MamaSheepdog":3jadprsk said:

If they have a high mortality rate as OAF did, you can then cull the entire line, disinfect everything, cry for weeks, and then start over with a new herd.

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sorry, I just had to chuckle at that one.(cry for weeks_)

Mary Ann's Rabbitry":ueu18g98 said:

MamaSheepdog":ueu18g98 said:

If they have a high mortality rate as OAF did, you can then cull the entire line, disinfect everything, cry for weeks, and then start over with a new herd.

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sorry, I just had to chuckle at that one.(cry for weeks_)

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I cried for quite a while, actually....

OneAcreFarm":2x35umx3 said:

I cried for quite a while, actually....

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Well, yeah... not constantly, but at intervals. I rarely ever cry (I'm very stoic, lol!), but when I do, watch out. All the old hurts come out too- grief, revisited.