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MaggieJ":v8ctbp1z said:
Grumpy, I am well aware that my novel is far too long, but I can't see a way (at present) to divide it into two books. The darned thing just keeps expanding. So many social issues of the times keep coming to the surface. It's an easy read, though, so I'm hoping that will help its saleability. At least these days the option of self-publishing is viable, if I can't find a publishing company that is interested.

Take it to fruition, Maggie. There 'might' be a spot where you can divide
it. I'm running into the same problem with the one I'm working on right
now. I can't see a way out of it, without the necessity to write a follow up.

The word count is at 144,000 words right now and it could easily top
200,000 before I would begin to feel comfortable about ending it
without a sequel.

Only my interest in rabbits comes close to the fulfillment I get
from writing. It's so easy to lose track of time when I'm writing.
I find the research a story requires nearly as interesting as the novel.

You may well have a masterpiece in the works. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Grumpy! :D

Yes, no choice -- having come this far, I have to keep going and finish it. I know there is some fat that can be trimmed afterwards, but I have always tended to write "long"" and then edit. Sometimes, especially in the early part of a novel, you can't be sure what is important to advance the story and what can easily be done without. Hindsight is clearer.

It's been an amazing journey for me. I've learned more about local social history from it than I could ever have learned any other way. Learned plenty about myself too! ;)
 
Grumpy didn't say your novel was too long, only that it's a huge effort and a lot longer than the typical novel. Do you want to be accused of writing a "typical" novel? :twisted:

I don't read Stephen King, but my aunt does. Apparently, King's publisher wouldn't print the whole book originally, and King had to cut it down. He cut some 150,000 words from it to get them to print it. A couple decades later, the publisher agreed to print the book unabridged. My aunt couldn't care less how long the book is. She's glad to have the whole thing, and scoffs at the publisher's original thoughts that the book was too long.

So like Grumpy said, keep moving forward. When you are finished with it and are working through edits, you'll know what to do. :)
 
Thanks, Miss M. :) Typical novel? You're right, not my style. :lol:

I know Grumpy didn't say that my novel is too long, but I'm sure he knows as well as I do that publishers are reluctant to publish really long novels by unknowns. Your Stephen King story (thanks for that!) illustrates this perfectly. It is easier to get a novel of 150,000 words published than one that runs twice that length. If necessary, I'll self-publish, but I'd really rather not have to deal with the business end of things.
 
MaggieJ":2tkdyi0e said:
Thanks, Miss M. :) Typical novel? You're right, not my style. :lol:

I know Grumpy didn't say that my novel is too long, but I'm sure he knows as well as I do that publishers are reluctant to publish really long novels by unknowns. Your Stephen King story (thanks for that!) illustrates this perfectly. It is easier to get a novel of 150,000 words published than one that runs twice that length. If necessary, I'll self-publish, but I'd really rather not have to deal with the business end of things.

Question Maggie: What's "too" long?? I've considered what it would
take for good character development in the one I'm on now, and it
could easily top 325,000 words. That's a "ton" of words for a novel,
but the storyline warrants the time and effort involved.

Mark Twain-----self-pubbed. Walt Whitman-----self-pubbed.
Ernest Hemingway-----self-pubbed. A modern-day author got
over 200+ rejections for her book. She self-pubbed her story
and it became "The" #1 seller on the New York Times best-seller's
list. Her name is Amanda Brown and her story is "Legally Blonde."
These are just a few author's that come quickly to mind.

The three stories I've written is about the same storyline that
encompasses 40+ years. The total word-count for the three is
well over 325,000 words. Not much different from your present
endeavor. I just found some good spots to "break" the story so I
could take a breather.

With all of the hard work and time you've spent on your story,
would you want someone to "trash" up to 50% of it? I wouldn't.
I'd be screamin' like a mashed cat. :x I "would" pick 5 or 6
really close people you could trust and let them read it and
"""honestly""" give you their opinion about it. It takes GUTS
to put yourself "out-there" and let other people see your work.
It's personal....It's private.....It's a big part of.....YOU..!!

No one, myself included likes rejection, but as author's
we must take the risk. Otherwise, our stories are just words
on paper till we share them with others.

grumpy. :)
 
grumpy":198q86bt said:
Question Maggie: What's "too" long?? I've considered what it would
take for good character development in the one I'm on now, and it
could easily top 325,000 words. That's a "ton" of words for a novel,
but the storyline warrants the time and effort involved.

Some novels require more length for exactly the reasons you mention. I'm not suggesting that a writer should limit the length arbitrarily. But my writing at least can use tightening up, getting rid of some bits of dialogue and description. There are passages in the early parts of the book that I thought might be needed that now seem superfluous in the context of the book as a whole. I will keep a copy of the unabridged version too, but I am confident that it will be a better novel for judicious editing.

There's an excellent book called Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Browne and Dave King that has taught me a lot about how and why to revise and how to make a manuscript more professional.


Mark Twain-----self-pubbed. Walt Whitman-----self-pubbed.
Ernest Hemingway-----self-pubbed. A modern-day author got
over 200+ rejections for her book. She self-pubbed her story
and it became "The" #1 seller on the New York Times best-seller's
list. Her name is Amanda Brown and her story is "Legally Blonde."
These are just a few author's that come quickly to mind.

I will self-publish if necessary, but there is one Canadian publishing company in particular for which that I believe my novel would be an excellent fit. If they don't take it, I will be looking to publish it myself.

The three stories I've written is about the same storyline that
encompasses 40+ years. The total word-count for the three is
well over 325,000 words. Not much different from your present
endeavor. I just found some good spots to "break" the story so I
could take a breather.

A good place to break my novel seems to be lacking. As it is I will be jumping into a sequel as soon as I finish this one. My current novel covers about 20 years: (1876-1897) I expect the sequel to cover 20-30 years.

With all of the hard work and time you've spent on your story,
would you want someone to "trash" up to 50% of it? I wouldn't.
I'd be screamin' like a mashed cat. :x I "would" pick 5 or 6
really close people you could trust and let them read it and
"""honestly""" give you their opinion about it. It takes GUTS
to put yourself "out-there" and let other people see your work.
It's personal....It's private.....It's a big part of.....YOU..!!

No one, myself included likes rejection, but as author's
we must take the risk. Otherwise, our stories are just words
on paper till we share them with others.

grumpy. :)

I won't trash it and I won't let anyone else trash it either. But sometimes less is more. As for rejection . . . I've been sending out stories since I was a teenager. Short stories first, a novel when I was about thirty and a children's chapter book about twelve years ago. Lots of false starts in between the two novels. I've been lucky in that the rejections for the novels did come sugar-coated in the form of pleasant letters complimenting my writing style and telling me why they were not buying the books. I did sell one short story when I was 17, to a boy scout magazine that occasionally published junior writers. That $70 was first real money I ever earned, aside from baby-sitting money.
 
I rarely write anything but novels anymore. I did write a series of short stories about one character back in the '90s, but the intent was that they would be published as a book. By the time I was finished them, I'd lost interest in the character and moved on to other projects. I should dust the stories off one of these days and take another look. At this point I don't know if they had any merit or not.

I've written an occasional prose-poem but it's not really where my heart is. I do occasionally indulge in light verse, such as a poem I composed for my brother's birthday or the one about my cat, Marilla (the one in my avatar, sadly deceased now) on Christmas Eve. It's just for fun. :)
merry-christmas-to-everybunny-t1977.html

My main love is novels. I like to have the room to let my characters grow and change as they live their lives. :)
 
That is such a sweet and Christmas-y poem! :popcorn:

I hope to be good at novels one day... but sometimes it seems the story becomes boring. I hope my book "September" will be able to keep the readers interested, once it is fully edited :)
According to Microsoft Word, my book has exactly 8400 words right now :p I consider that a lot, hahaha!
 
Petlover500":29jnkb41 said:
That is such a sweet and Christmas-y poem! :popcorn:

I hope to be good at novels one day... but sometimes it seems the story becomes boring. I hope my book "September" will be able to keep the readers interested, once it is fully edited :)
According to Microsoft Word, my book has exactly 8400 words right now :p I consider that a lot, hahaha!

Sometimes when a story seems to become boring it is because the writer gives too much detail about things that aren't really important. Food, for instance. A character like September who eats breakfast cereal for supper . . . that tells the reader something about her. But we don't need to know what she eats on a day to day basis. (I'm telling you this because giving too many details of the daily life of a character is one of my weaknesses -- and I'll be watching for it when I edit my novel.)

Sometimes it is better to omit the details and simply say something like: After breakfast, Jane gathered up her books and went to school. rather than tell about how she prepared her eggs and what kind of fruit juice she had. What happened when she got to school and talked to her best friend about about the problem she is having with her boyfriend is more likely to move the story along.

This is just an example of one way to tighten your writing and not get bogged down. I hope you find it helpful.

__________ Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:53 pm __________

- - -

Edited to add: I just came across this website, PL, and thought that you may like it.
http://theeditorsblog.net/2011/10/01/ho ... our-story/ <br /><br /> __________ Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:11 pm __________ <br /><br /> Another useful site:
http://www.writersdigest.com/
 
Thank you Maggie! That helps me so much!
I guess I often describe the little things instead of the big ones.
I will try to edit that! :D

I will check out those sites too!
 
Glad you found it helpful, PL. :)

There is a lot of information about writing techniques that can help you to tell your story well. The part that cannot be taught is the most important though: the moral passion of people caught in adversity. And I think you have that in your story about September. (Love the name!)

When I was about 12-15, I ransacked the local library for books about writing fiction. I read everything they had over the next couple of years. Some of it was very helpful; some of it was not. But even the "junk" helped in a way as I became more knowledgeable and I was able to see those books as what NOT to do. You'll find those books in the 800s of the Dewey Decimal System.
 
Aww thank you so much, that means a lot to me! :love:
I will try my hardest to put all the passion and love I have into my books to draw readers in and really get attatched to my characters and to the story :) :D
It is a lot of work... but I am up for the challenge!
 
Petlover500":3hka30xl said:
Aww thank you so much, that means a lot to me! :love:
I will try my hardest to put all the passion and love I have into my books to draw readers in and really get attatched to my characters and to the story :) :D
It is a lot of work... but I am up for the challenge!

I do believe you are up for the challenge . . . which is why I am telling you things that I think will help. The most important thing (as my sister keeps telling me about my novel) is to KEEP WRITING!!!

:good-luck:
 
I will always keep writing!! :D

Yayy, I just updated my cover for my online book :)
http://writersunite.freeforums.org/september-t301.html


Questions for All: On average, how many words do your chapters have? Mine are in the range from 500 to 1,000.
How long does it take you to write a chapter? Usually about 30 mins to an hour or so....
How long did it take for you to finish a book?
 
i like to write... hence my various blogs. I've been encouraged to set down and write children's books. but i'd rather get a start on writing homeschooling materials. :) use my love of stories and writing that way.
 
Lots of ways to enjoy using one's writing talents! :)

PetLover, there is no ideal length for a chapter in a novel. It's a subjective decision that each writer makes.

My chapters tend to run about 2000 words. Most weeks I manage 1-2 chapters. Like Grumpy, I pick my words very carefully and then revise, polish, and revise again. I expect to finish a chapter a week and if I manage two chapters, I am delighted.

As for how long to write a whole novel at the length I prefer . . . YEARS!
 
Wow! You sound really professional :D

It just took me 1 hour to write 1 chapter in my book that was 1,236 words! Although I don't pick and choose my words too carefully... I still think it turned out pretty good :)
I am a beginner and my book is going to be made for teens and isn't supposed to be a super sophisticated book :p
 
Funny thing happened a day or so ago. I've worried 'publicly' about
the length of the story I'm working on right now. Well, here I was--
just writin' along....and BOOM..!!! there it was. An
excellent ending to the book!!

Not an end to the story.....just a good place to end the first book.
I knew the storyline demanded more.....but that's okay. I can
start another quite easily. A true fictional story actually never ends.
It can go on as long as it holds interest for the writer, but mainly
for the reader's. That's the beauty of writing fiction.

On average: A typewritten page hold 200-250 words. It will
condense after print.

My chapters: Run anywhere from 12-18 typewritten pages. I've
gotten a lot of positive feedback from my reader's telling me they
prefer the shorter chapters. I've a lot of 'evening' reader's that read
before bedtime. Thus the preference for shorter chapters.

As a rule: I try to put a minimum of 500 words down per morning.
Then...in the evenings I'll proof...proof...proof. I do pretty good with this
pattern. Others might not.

Note: There are days, when everything is 'clicking' that I'll put
2500+ words down. It surprises me when I can...but I sure won't turn
it down. I call it being..."in the groove"...where everything comes together
with little to Zero effort. What is more curious, is that there are times I'll
go back an re-read portions and I find it difficult to believe "I wrote that?"

I'm sure Maggie can attest to that. Sorta spooky when you can get that
far 'into' a story and not even realize what you're writing......till later.

A place where your mind goes and thank heaven your fingers can follow.

grumpy.
 

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