Feeding Dog Raw Diet: Yes or no?

I have been extremely excited lately because my dogs that would previously never touch anything that was raw, recently devoured raw rabbit. It was the first thing I could get either of my two super picky Australian Shepherds to take. I let them split the back strap and they crunched it down in a matter of seconds, bones and all.

It got me so excited because I have always wanted to move towards a raw diet. I have heard so many amazing things and now that we are raising our own chickens and rabbits, I feel it is a great time to do it.

I went to the vet for annual checkups, rabies, etc... and the vet nearly freaked when I told her that I wanted to start transitioning them to raw. She was clearly very against it, which I expected to some extent, but she actually made me feel really bad about it. it was a very uncomfortable vet visit. Especially since I hadn't recently given them their tick preventative that I am waiting on in the mail. And of course my Mini Aussie, Kora had to come up positive for Anaplasmosis (which we tested further and found that she does not need to be treated for it). So I just left there feeling like a terrible pet owner. I was expecting some sort of argument from them but I did not expect to come out of there feeling like I have made all the wrong choices for my most beloved babies.

I would like to hear everyone's opinions on feeding raw. I know a lot of people who live a sustainable lifestyle or anything of the sort do feed raw and I know people love it. I am just scared to make a life-threatening decision and then have to live with myself afterwards. I would like to hear good and bad experiences and everyone's opinions on the matter, whether you agree with the raw diet or not. I trust this forum implicitly and truly value everyone's opinions on here. I love that you can post something without the worry of getting picked a part and torn down for something, unlike quite a few other forums I have tried out.

We try to feed raw but can't really afford a full diet all the time. You either need contacts (hunters, small butchers, farmers that butcher their own so it can't legally be sold as human food) or you need the money to buy in bulk from the nearest online vendor. I was raising lots of rabbits but some changes in living situation made us switch to guinea pigs. We were getting a deer every fall but my husband doesn't like venison as much as I do so I partially lost that source. We still get old venison meat from other people when they replace it with new in the fall. Poultry is pretty easy to get but we can't raise our own anymore. Freezer burnt meat of all kinds from people can help and doesn't impact the dogs. I have 50lbs of lamb I got for free but unfortunately my akita is allergic to lamb so she's been getting the last of the venison when the others eat lamb. Sadly we lost our pork source because it's her favorite and they enjoy the ribs a lot. With the spring fishing season everything is eating well for spawning and I've got 10lbs of catfish (after we took fillets for ourselves), about 5 bluegill, and a dozen 10" rock bass portioned out in the freezer.

I have a 100 lb. maremma and a 120 lb. akbash.They had a litter of 11 in October. ALL the dogs have been raw fed exclusively.
I feed a rotation of rabbit, lamb, chicken and any other meat and eggs given to me from sources like Akane mentioned.
My dogs are very healthy and if I had a vet who didn't understand it I would probably find another vet.
Some vets make a lot of $$ selling "hypo allergenic" kibble to treat all the conditions that dogs get from eating the
unnatural diet that they have been put on. They don't have a lot of motivation to learn the health benefits of
returning dogs to their natural way of eating.

A lot of people do screw up feeding raw and that's when vets see the dogs. They don't see the healthy ones that don't need to come because they have a good diet. Someone was just saying they feed beef muscle meat, rice, and vegetables. There are so many things wrong with that long term. It's a diet sometimes used to hunt down allergies, for emergency food, or for an upset stomach. It's not raw. First you have to decide if you are in the group that believes vegetables are necessary or not before you can pick a diet to follow. We feed prey model raw. We feed as many whole food items as possible, mix together the parts of large animals to match the percentages found in whole animals (frakenprey), and do not feed any vegetables or fruits as an actual part of the diet. Some dogs, especially puppies, do find carrots and corn cobs fun to chew and relieve teething pain.

So what are some ways that you can mess up feeding raw? You mentioned the veggies.. What else? And what are the consequences? As long as you feed good percentages of everything and give them a balanced diet, everything I have read tells me they will thrive. So what happens if you don't get that balance perfect?

System shuts down It depends.. it can start with hair loss and end in organ failure.

I fed prey model (80% meat, 10% bones, 10% organs) and found out that this diet is just not for everydog. In two months my dog smelled like rotten meat and there was obvious decrease in his energy level. I still don`t believe that raw meat diet is ther natural food - dogs are not wolfs and they evolved on leftover food. I read studies about tibetian dogs and shepdogs - majority of them had problems with diets with a lot of meat, because their digestive system is just not accustomed to that.
Now I mix different kinds of food - one week kibble, one week home prepared cooked/raw diet, and one week prey model. In the two weeks off-kibble I need to give him a lot of vegetables or else he is grazing on the grass like a cow.

Any kind of diet you choose you will need some time to learn about what pleases them - my dog has profuse diarhhea if I give him cow/pig throat, everything else he digest just fine. I can feed him just organs for two days and he still has firm poo, but after throats..And it doesn`t matter if they are raw or cooked

Nika":2f4diq5r said:

I still don`t believe that raw meat diet is ther natural food - dogs are not wolfs and they evolved on leftover food. I read studies about tibetian dogs and shepdogs - majority of them had problems with diets with a lot of meat, because their digestive system is just not accustomed to that.

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:yeahthat:

Like Nika said, many dog breeds have been bred to thrive on diets low in meat. In fact, scientists have recently discovered gene mutations that allow dogs to digest grains that wolves don't have. Some estimates have dogs being domesticated 40,000+ years ago. That is alot of time living with people and eating our leftovers and evolving to thrive on those leftovers. That being said, do some dogs have trouble with grains? Yes, but so do some people. It will vary from breed to breed and even dog to dog.

Nika":2m4tdvsm said:

I still don`t believe that raw meat diet is ther natural food - dogs are not wolfs and they evolved on leftover food. I read studies about tibetian dogs and shepdogs - majority of them had problems with diets with a lot of meat, because their digestive system is just not accustomed to that.

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This is a very good point and I have been thinking about it a lot. That is why I don't think I would be comfortable fully feeding raw. But I have also heard that mixing raw and kibble isn't good either. It is very apparent that nobody really knows. This subject is definitely not black and white. Everyone has different opinions and different facts to back them up.

So I am thinking that I will just feed them the raw as treats throughout the week. Maybe one raw meal and then just throw them the scraps that I am not eating. I still don't think my Mini Aussie, Kora would even accept a fully raw diet so that may be the answer to this right there. I do like the fact that they are crunching through bones though, which is cleaning their teeth. Because despite what my vet says I am NOT about to go brush my damn dog's teeth every day. And Just from one raw meal, my dogs' teeth looked fantastic. My Aussie/Lab, Keazy's coat has felt softer and lush since I have started supplementing their kibble with some raw snacks. Now this may just be in our heads, but my boyfriend noticed too.

Does anyone see a problem with the occasional raw snack or treat throughout the week?

Kenzierey":183rj3ba said:

But I have also heard that mixing raw and kibble isn't good either.

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That is because of different speed of digestion kibble vs. raw, and differences in encymes that digest kibble vs. raw, and all the other differences. But, when you eat steak, rice and veggies, is it any different? When my dog is fed up with kibbles he doesn`t eat them so I give him a raw meal (no, he is not spoiled) and when he finishes eating 1,5kg lamb leg he goes straight to the bowl with kibbles and eat those to. He is 10 and eats like this a couple of years so there is not really a problem. I also mix home-cooked with kibbles without problems, but overall I don`t see the point in mixing that so usually just feed one kind of food.

Rather than snack/treat a couple of times a week, give them whole meal, I fully support that and dogs will too

The kibble/raw feeding combo and speed of digestion thing has been totally disproven on the raw feeding group I am in. Most have come to agree you can feed the 2 whenever you want. Others just suggest a few hour separation as a precaution. Even before the change in opinion people often fed one meal in the morning and one meal in the evening. The problem with mixing kibble with anything is that kibble has a higher rate of salmonella than your raw food and will go bad rapidly when exposed to moisture and other items. It needs eaten immediately to avoid bloat or diarrhea.

We just do raw days as available because we often give whole prey and they eat all they can get so they don't even want food later that day or often the next day. I can see how some breeds would have a harder time switching. I'm told doberman have been fed a lot of grains for longer than other dogs due to their certain farm work so they handle them better. I don't know if it's true. I have spitz breeds that are closer to wolves and have been fed on meat until recent generations. Huskies that are working as sled dogs are still fed on a lot of fish and broth and akitas and shibas were originally hunting dogs with a handful plus the lesser known related breeds of Japan still eating the bones and scraps of their kills.

There was also something said about not worrying about salmonella in raw because of the short digestion time in the tract, but that same salmonella in kibble is fatal, so because of the long digestion time, the two should never be fed together.

Not feeding kibble has cleared up gunky ear problems and hot spots. My dogs have less doggy smell, less gas, and seem to have less issues with worms. Dogs are omnivores indeed, but kibble is so terribly unnatural I'd take any alternative. At this point because of my vehicle I can no longer get the raw meat, and I'm seeing the problems return. <br /><br /> __________ Thu May 19, 2016 1:16 pm __________ <br /><br /> Hey, you beat me to it

My boys have been eating raw rabbit and kibble for years now. My vet tells me my pitbull is in fantastic shape for his age, and that me can't believe he doesn't have any visible tumors. I guess tumors are the norm?

A different vet tried pressuring us to put the old guy through an expensive and painful surgery a few years ago, in regards to an aural hematoma in his left ear. (A cosmetic surgery.) She tried to convince him he would be a horrible pet owner if he refused. Tried to say that it was absolutely necessary to heal, and that refusing would permanently increase his risk for ear infections...

I'm still glad I never put him through that. He's still with us, his ear healed up fine, with just a slight rumple. Absolutely nowhere near the extreme amount of folds it would take to create an ear infection risk.

What IS permanently damaged, is my faith in veterinarians. :|

On another note, is salmonella even a serious risk from rabbits? From what I can see online, any exposure to it causes disease, death, and abortion in the buns themselves.
It seems like there wouldn't be very many healthy rabbits out there that were carrying the bacteria.

Zass":109gtkkn said:

My boys have been eating raw rabbit and kibble for years now. My vet tells me my pitbull is in fantastic shape for his age, and that me can't believe he doesn't have any visible tumors. I guess tumors are the norm?

A different vet tried pressuring us to put the old guy through an expensive and painful surgery a few years ago, in regards to an aural hematoma in his left ear. (A cosmetic surgery.) She tried to convince him he would be a horrible pet owner if he refused. Tried to say that it would increase his risk for ear infections...

I'm glad I never put him through that. He's still with us, his ear healed up fine, with just a slight rumple. Absolutely nowhere near the extreme amount of folds it would take to create an ear infection risk.

What IS permanently damaged, is my faith in veterinarians. :|

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Beautiful pups Zass!! I am curious as to what exactly your dogs' diets are. What kibble do you use? And how much rabbit is in their diet? How and when do you feed the rabbit?

I really like the sound of this because I only raise my own rabbits and chickens and was worried about having to find other outside sources for meat. That sounds like the best option for us so far. Especially since rabbit seems to be the only raw food that both of the pups enjoyed. Plus, that gives me a reason to get more rabbits if I am feeding four mouths rather than two, right? LOL

Rabbit I wouldn't worry much about bacteria. I don't even worry too much about fresh chicken and beef butchered myself or bought in bulk from the processor and put in my deep freeze. It's more the grocery store stuff and the butcher store display stuff that's been sitting there only refrigerated and probably frozen and thawed back out at some point.

We fed a raw diet to our dog for the first 2 years (had her since 6 weeks old) and had no issues. The food was purchased frozen from a pet store chain which specialized in feeds which did not contain "fillers". Beef, chicken, fish, turkey, ect. mixed with vegetables, mainly carrots. We called it quits on the raw food only because raw food was hard to store while on vacation, or when we had to leave her at a kennel. The benefit of raw food for us was Belle's general health as well as small dry white poops (because our dog actually digested the majority of the food leaving very little to pass through).

We compromised raw food with kibble by feeding Orijen. It is made locally and with human grade products. We believe the raw food was a great starter for Belle since she can devour any bone given to her and she loves LOVES vegetable scraps.

How many peoples dogs will eat lettuce, spinach, bell peppers and such? Ours does

http://www.orijen.ca/

My dogs used to pull fresh cucumbers off the vine. Pepper will pretty much eat anything, and the rest love green beans, potatoes, rice to some degree. At my lowest point I fed them a gruel I made with oatmeal and beef fat scraps. They got pretty fat.

Knacker":sd42eesp said:

The benefit of raw food for us was Belle's general health as well as small dry white poops

How many peoples dogs will eat lettuce, spinach, bell peppers and such? Ours does

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Dry white poops are not a good sign, there is far too much bones in the diet.

Spinach from nettle, the best of the best

Orijen costs more than buying whole ground turkey and beef products and having them shipped to you. I would go 100% raw if I had the money for that :lol: We use some taste of the wild but it's a messy ingredients list with the lamb my dog is allergic to hidden in all but 2 formulas and I question the quality of the ingredients even if the label reads well. We try to use FROMM with a mix of canned foods on sale or discounted for dents for our other meals. Canned food tends to contain less other ingredients and more meat because it's easier to process with a high meat content than kibble. I had baked kibble for awhile but it was expensive. Extruded kibble requires a certain level of other ingredients to go through the machine and form in the die.

Nika":2y6ds1gv said:

Knacker":2y6ds1gv said:

The benefit of raw food for us was Belle's general health as well as small dry white poops

How many peoples dogs will eat lettuce, spinach, bell peppers and such? Ours does

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Dry white poops are not a good sign, there is far too much bones in the diet.

Spinach from nettle, the best of the best

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I should clarify my "dry white poops" statement. They weren't completely dry, but compared to those bloated and stinky poops that happen due to excess fillers I would say they were "dry". As well, they weren't completely white either but in comparison to regular kibble they were definitely lighter.

As a human that eats the occasional junk food or "filler", I can see the difference in both size and dryness of my own stool. <br /><br /> __________ Fri May 20, 2016 8:03 am __________ <br /><br />

akane":2y6ds1gv said:

Orijen costs more than buying whole ground turkey and beef products and having them shipped to you. I would go 100% raw if I had the money for that :lol: We use some taste of the wild but it's a messy ingredients list with the lamb my dog is allergic to hidden in all but 2 formulas and I question the quality of the ingredients even if the label reads well. We try to use FROMM with a mix of canned foods on sale or discounted for dents for our other meals. Canned food tends to contain less other ingredients and more meat because it's easier to process with a high meat content than kibble. I had baked kibble for awhile but it was expensive. Extruded kibble requires a certain level of other ingredients to go through the machine and form in the die.

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I agree that the food is expensive but for our dog and the little we have to feed her, the cost has become a matter of convenience. Plus we have never had an issue with our dog. In the 12 years that she has been in our lives, she is still as spry as when she was a pup. No weight problems, no detectable illnesses, beautiful shiny coat, no mess on the back end unless off coarse she gorges down on our friends dogs kibble :lol:

When we first got our Pugsley, we fed him a mostly raw diet - chicken mainly, with organs and such added in to make up the proper quantity (I admit, I don't recall what it was exactly now, it was many years ago).

We stopped when we got a second, larger dog, we couldn't afford it anymore