Warming up a baby in dryer and RATS. ugh. Graphic talk.

I went out to my rabbit area this morning.

Margie had several dead kits. One had it's throat ripped out. Other partially eaten.

3 dead, 1 cold (I thought was dead) but cold and chewed a little on the back. It's pretty warm here, but I noticed the other kits won't warm it up, they kept crawling away from it.

So here's what I am doing, tell me if I'm doing it right, wrong, etc.

The nestbox was full of blood and gore. So I grabbed a new nestbox ( never been used ) and put straw, some soft hay, and some of margies shaved fur from my closet. I put the live babies in there. They still wouldn't snuggle/warm up the injured one so I am putting it in the dryer.



Do you think it's lethargy is from being cold after being bitten? It is Hawaii, like 68 outside right now.

I figured probably won't hurt to warm it up either way.

I've got the babies in the office right now, I'm scared to put them back outside. This is Hawaii, they are outside, we do have rats (three kinds!) and they are a small type that can squeeze into rabbit cages.

I'm hoping that Margie didn't do this to her babies. They were all well fed with full bellies. So I'm going to assume its rats.

Am I doing the right things? Do I just need to bring the babies inside after being born and just take boxes of babies out to the moms to be fed? I'm sure the moms will adjust. Then when the babies are big and leaving the nestbox I bet I could put them back outside?

I'm so heartbroken. I've had two litters born this week, 8 each and I'm down to 5 good non bitten ones and 1 chewed up but still alive one. From 16. Frankly I'm pissed about the wasted feed and time but also being killed this way is probably not the nicest bestest way to go either.

Oh no! Poor little kits. That is a pretty gruesome way to go.

I wonder if the bitten one smells like rats and that is why the others don't want to be near it? You might want to wipe it down with a warm damp rag to get the smell off.

I am concerned that even once the babies are big enough to leave the nest that the rats will still go after them. They are very aggressive, at least most types are, I don't know about the Hawaiian varieties.

Is there any way that you could add a layer of 1/2" aviary mesh (the teeny chicken wire kind) or hardware cloth to the cages to keep them out?

If not, I would suggest all out war. Bucket traps, sticky traps, snap traps, killer cupcakes, poison... are outdoor cats an option in Hawaii or are they banned because of the damage they do to native birds? Is a dog a possibility? JRTs are great ratters, of course, but surprisingly, so are Australian Shepherds. Confining a dog in the rabbit area at night would be a good idea.

:yeahthat:

I'm so sorry, Dayna; that's terrible.

Dayna, how horrible!

Warming the injured kit cannot hurt... It gives it a better chance of survival but with both injuries and the chilling it may not make it. :clover:

Is this the first sign of rat problems you have seen? Most of us have rats around in theory, but you can go a long time without attacks unless the population explodes. Observe Margie's behaviour closely when you put the nest box in. You may get a clue as to what happened by watching for aggressive behaviour. I'm guessing it was likely rats... And perhaps that is why Hazel was not doing well with her kits, if she was being harassed.

Rats can be a real problem. If other animals are not at risk (pets and free range birds) poison in secure bait boxes may be the answer. Traps can help reduce numbers too. Usually if their population is kept down, the rats do not get bold enough to attack kits.

Oh, poor thing! I'm glad it's got you!

MamaSheepdog":3qmazhv6 said:

I would suggest all out war.

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Ditto! Pull out the big guns if you have that many rats around. :gun: :2guns: :bash: :chair: :annihilate:


Before we moved here, we had a little bitty rat/mouse problem that we took care of with a bit of that blood-thinning rat poison. I remember going out to take care of the buns when I saw one of the nibbled blocks sitting in Squeakie's cage! I ran and got Mom, and we got it out, but we think it may have almost been carried off by a rat/mouse and got dropped through the wire roof of Squeak's cage. We treated her with vitamin K and watched her closely, but nothing showed up, and she is still with us, happy and spoiled as ever!

If you go the poison route, you need a supply of vitamin K on hand for that kind of situation, but you can only get it through a vet or vet supply.

Galadriel":oovagooo said:

If you go the poison route, you need a supply of vitamin K on hand for that kind of situation, but you can only get it through a vet or vet supply.

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Good point, Galadriel!

You guys were lucky that you found the evidence in the cage and knew to treat her.

The killer cupcakes might be the better option.

Here is the link to the original "killer cupcake" thread, Dayna:

any-idea-on-how-fast-they-die-t10410.html

MamaSheepdog":2v3ck91c said:

[snip]

The killer cupcakes might be the better option.

Here is the link to the original "killer cupcake" thread, Dayna:

any-idea-on-how-fast-they-die-t10410.html

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Thank you!

I hadn't seen that thread before. It has a some EXCELLENT ideas!

My GF and I have had our (separate, 4 miles apart) compost bins disrupted by Rattus rattus incursions this past year, probably due to the drought. :angry: I'll implement the baking soda remedy here, since I have the ingredients, and I'll let GF know the various options. (She even had a "rat excluder" on the bottom of her BioStack.)

Well that kit died. As expected. I am now down to 4, from 16. Sigh.

We have

Roof rat (Rattus rattus)-Medium to large rat, body 5 to 7 inches long. Tail slender and always longer than head and body combined. Body color varies from grey to jet black; underside grey, grey-white, or white. Nose sharply pointed, large eyes, large, thin ears; in female, five pairs of nipples. Expert climber and wire scaler; frequents cane fields, macadamia nut, coffee, papaya, and banana groves; nests in attics of buildings, trees, banana bunches, and abandoned burrows of Norway rats. Moderately susceptible to plague infection.

Norway rat (Rattus norvegicus)-Largest of the rats in Hawaii, weighs 10 to 18 ounces, measurers 8 to 10 inches long. Tail stout, shorter than head and body combined. Body color redish brown to grey to black; underside whitish color. Head wide, nose blunt, ears small, eyes small, cuncky in appearance; in female, six pairs of nipples. A burrowing species in ground, rubbish piles, garbage dumps and under walks and docks; frequents sewers, pis styes, and chicken coops. May cause great damage to cane fields. Vicious. High degree of resistance to plague infection.

Polynesian rat (Rattus exulans)-Comparatively small in size, weighs 2 to 3 ounces, measures 4 to 5 inches long. Tail as long or slightly longer than head and body combined; bristles along tail give the appearance of faint, narrow rings. Body color is cinnamon-brown to cinnamon-buff to grey; stiff black guard hairs on back and sides; underside light buff or grey. Nose roundly pointed, ears rather short, eyes medium size, hind feet dark on underside; in female, four pairs of nipples. A field rat, rarely found near buildings in Hawaii; nests in burrows, gulches, rock piles, rock walls, wastelands, fields, and embankments. Causes great damage to sugarcane, pineapple, macadamia nuts, coconuts, coffee, and other fruit and vegetable crops. Very susceptible to plague infection.

*sniff!* I'm so sorry! Poor baby!

I have these bait sticks, that are supposed to be very effective. They have a hole in the middle so they can be tied so that the rats cannot drag them away to poison non target species. I just made a bait station out of a 2 liter pop bottle and secured it on top of margies cage (margie cannot in any way shape or form get to this bait) but I figured, if they were there "eating" baby buns last night this will be their first stop tonight!

Dayna, perhaps I am misunderstanding you but do you mean that you put the bait stick into the 2 litre pop bottle? Rats can get through very small openings, but I don't think they could get into a pop bottle... unless, of course, your rats are a LOT smaller than ours. You may need to enlarge the opening a bit.

Ours are brown rats a.k.a. Norway rats (Rattus norvegicus). I understand that black rats (Rattus rattus) are smaller. Some basic information on rats is available here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_rat

We mostly have the Polynesian rats (which are not found anywhere else in the US) around here, but yes, I cut off the pouring part of the pop bottle so that they can get in there! lol

Actually the hole is made in the bait stick so it can be put on a metal pole that fits against the top and bottom or side to side of a locking bait box (some even take a key) and cannot be moved. For good measure we put a brick on ours because the dogs smell the rodents and end up moving the box or with smaller boxes hauling them out in the field to chew and bury. Lost a few good live mouse traps because the bernese mountain dog loved rodents so much and kept running off with my traps. My rats were too smart for traps.

If they get bold enough rats will attack full size meat rabbits. They can take off toes and leave bite marks to get infected. Even smaller rats and smaller populations will quite easily kill weaning kits.

Vit k will do you no good with many modern rat poisons. That method of killing rodents is mostly outdated. Current poisons are far worse. You cannot counter a poisoning except to try to flush it out of the system. Inducing vomiting and injecting lots of fluids. The good thing about new rodent poisons is that they are no longer transferred to a predatory animal that eats the poisoned rodent. We think years back that's what happened to my akita. She ate a poisoned animal and nearly bled out after her spay surgery from too small amount of poison to notice otherwise. Just happened to time her spay surgery wrong or she would have been fine.

Dayna I'm so sorry you are having such a rat problem. We had the big rats on the old property and they are terribly destructive. They ate baby bunnies, chicks and ate the feet off our quail! Nasty critters! They are the reason I have my doe cages made out of 100 percent 1/2 x 1 inch wire. Expensive but those cages are 25 years old now. It might be something to consider in your war on the rats. :good-luck:

The rat problem doesn't surprise me. I did move all the feeds for all the animals to our 20 foot shipping container. That locks up air tight. lol I've never had rodents in there and routinely store human food in there.

Between the goats, sheep, parrots, rabbits, chickens, guinea pigs, and dogs... There is a lot of food that gets tossed on the ground for the rats to eat. I'll always have a problem, but if I can knock back the population some that would be awesome. And if a mongoose eats a poisoned rat? Even BETTER. I trap and kill those on a regular basis too since they steal my chicken eggs.

And while I did think of a rat terrier, no more dogs for me. No more dogs. No more dogs. Cats are out of the question, I had to kill two cats for eating baby chickens.

dayna":3kq36wk9 said:

T
Between the goats, sheep, parrots, rabbits, chickens, guinea pigs, and dogs... There is a lot of food that gets tossed on the ground for the rats to eat. I'll always have a problem, but if I can knock back the population some that would be awesome.
And while I did think of a rat terrier, no more dogs for me. No more dogs. No more dogs. Cats are out of the question, I had to kill two cats for eating baby chickens.

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I'm very sorry you lost your babies.

This is one of the reasons I only use pellets now. The groat outs and BOSS just falls out of the feeders, and winds up onto the floor, attracting the mice, and possibly possums. Every time I try to add a grain, the population rises. The dogs deal with possums, but the mice are a bit harder.

The cat, has become a house cat, no use in the barn. I'm not sure I'd trust him by himself anyway, and the dogs would chase mice, but also eat bunny poop and reek havoc if left uncrated.

Still I don't want poison. The dogs will simply carry the bait stations off. I have no ethical problem with glue traps, and if I come on the mouse who is still alive, I will dispatch him with haste.

In order from keeping the glue traps from becoming filled with hay, fur, dust, I opened some cans of sweet potatoes and put them in. Instant irresistible bait. And the dog's cannot get their muzzles inside the can to eat the mouse.

Glue traps are an inhumane and disgusting form of pest control, and should be outlawed on the premise that they cause a lot of undue stress and suffering to animals caught on them. Getting rid of mice should be done as painlessly as possible, not hours of torture. Quick killing traps work great. The whole concept of a glue trap, quite frankly, sickens me. I've had bad experiences with them and the average user of them is usually so negligent when it comes to them that I shudder to think what the animal goes through stuck for a whole day (if not more) on these damn things!!

While I don't like the use of glue traps and so far have not had to resort to that, you bet I would if I had to in order to protect the health of my livestock or family.

GregStreet":dgw76tbs said:

Glue traps are an inhumane and disgusting form of pest control, and should be outlawed on the premise that they cause a lot of undue stress and suffering to animals caught on them. Getting rid of mice should be done as painlessly as possible, not hours of torture.

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While glue traps are not my preferred control method, if they are the best option for the situation due to other animals or small children in the environment, I would not hesitate to use them.

Rats and mice have no qualms about eating other animals alive, and can wreak havoc on a litter of rabbit kits or other baby animals. They will indiscriminately bite multiple animals, not simply focusing on one and eating their fill.

The animals in our care take priority over wild vermin.

I'm sorry about your babies. I'd hate to see that here and, it could happen if I didn't have me Jersey Gian chickens that I let run in the rabbit barn one day a week. We have those small rats here that get into rabbit cages too but, the chickens eat them. Yes Jersy Giant chickens eat rats, they also move anything they can to find rat burrows under boards, bowls, piles of droppings, etc and, when the rats run, a chicken gets them and, the wat chickens scratch around gets the rats to come out to investigate so, more snacks for chickens.

The chickens make good insect control too, and they lay eggs that I can eat or, can let them hatch for more chickens and, eat those too.

No poison, no traps, no rats and fresh eggs, what could be better?

Oh anf Jersy giants handle being wet very well - they like to stand in the rain, even at 40 degrees.