Wolves!

[coyotejoe]

If this is the wrong place to post this please feel free to move it .
Up here in the Northwest corner of Montana we don't have so many wolves as they have down closer to Yellowstone but we do have wolves. Yesterday I went with a friend grouse hunting on his land up in the Yaak. Before hunting he first stopped to drop off a shotgun for a neighbor, a lady living alone without even a telephone.
Several nights previous she have visited her outhouse before dawn and looking out the outhouse door her headlight reflected seven pairs of wolf eyes looking back at her. Her little dog leaned against her legs, trembling in fear. She began banging the door of a metal cabinet to make noise and they did not run but did slowly fade away.
We gave her the 20 gauge pump shotgun, some buckshot loads and a brief instruction on loading and firing it so she can at least feel safe in going to the outhouse.
Montana has established a hunting season for wolves and one person can take up to 5 wolves per year, although they are very wary critters with very sharp senses, seldom present themselves to a hunter and I doubt anyone will ever be able to actually take 5 in one year by hunting, perhaps with a combination of hunting and trapping if a person is a really good and dedicated hunter/trapper. While grouse hunting we saw wolf scat everywhere, always full of deer and elk hair.
A funny thing I've noticed about wolf lovers, they don't have to live with wolves.

 

[Rabbitdog]

.... A funny thing I've noticed about wolf lovers, they don't have to live with wolves.

This is the typical extreme philosophy of 90% of animal rights activists. They are in no way affected by the results of their actions but insist upon enforcing their will on those that are (usually at any cost).

 

[MaggieJ]

You don't have to be an animal rights activist to love the wild things.

My personal experience of wolves is limited to summers near Algonquin Park and yes, I've seen them in a similar situation (going to the outhouse at night). A shot in the air disbursed them instantly. Wolf attacks do happen but they are rare - far rarer than dog attacks. The woman's little dog was certainly at risk. I'm glad you gave the woman a gun and showed her how to use it. It's not good to have to feel afraid.

 

[skysthelimit]

I love a lot of things from a distance. Wolves are one of them.
If I had to live with them, I would more than likely own a gun.

I think I can love and still shoot if I felt I was in danger. Though I would probably bring my outhouse just a little closer to the main house.

 

[coyotejoe]

It's true that here in the lower 48 wolf attacks have been rare but that is largely because wolves have been rare. Now they are multiplying pretty much unchecked. Montana has decided to apply some brakes to the expanding wolf population.
A couple of years ago Gwen and I took a friend and his 7 year old daughter to visit a Colorado wolf sanctuary called "Mission Wolf". The head guy introduced himself and knelt down beside the seven year old. He said "you've probably heard of wolves killing people" and when she said yes she had he said "well that never happened, wolves have never killed anybody". That was enough for me right there, he starts off the tour by lying to a child. I'm sure he feels that lying is OK when it's for a good cause but to my way of thinking BS is BS regardless of who spreads it or why.
Wolves earned their fearful reputation in days before firearms became common. In Siberia wolves had not been a problem for a century or more before Joe Stalin disarmed the peasants. The wolves quickly multiplied and began killing people who had no defense. Wolves sense fear in defenseless persons and likewise know to avoid people who are armed and unafraid.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think wolves are gorgeous animals with a highly developed social structure, and would be thrilled to see them "in the wild"... but not right outside my door! :x

We gave her the 20 gauge pump shotgun, some buckshot loads and a brief instruction on loading and firing it so she can at least feel safe in going to the outhouse.

You might want to give her a chamber pot, too, so she doesn't need to go out there at night at all. Hubs actually made a wooden "toilet seat" to fit on a 5 gallon bucket which we have used while camping and for a time when we were building our house and hadn't yet installed a toilet.

In Siberia wolves had not been a problem for a century or more before Joe Stalin disarmed the peasants. The wolves quickly multiplied and began killing people who had no defense. Wolves sense fear in defenseless persons and likewise know to avoid people who are armed and unafraid.

We see this with coyotes as well... suburban coyotes regularly prey on small pets and have even started going after young children, jumping over walls and fences to get them. They will also stop and stare brazenly at people. Contrast that with those in rural areas where they are considered nuisance animals by ranchers who don't hesitate to shoot them on sight. The coyotes here in my area keep their distance even from cars, and will not jump fences to get to livestock since they can't exit quickly.

 

[akane]

I don't think the "wolves have never killed anybody" is a purposeful lie. I think it's just that the propopents of reintroducing wild wolf populations have brainwashed that fact (I'm not sure where it comes from) to everyone who ever thought a wolf looked interesting. My husband has said it but I didn't need to go on the internet to question that one. If a pack will take down 500+lb animals with speed or hooved and horned defenses why wouldn't they take down a human? 100-200lbs of utterly defenseless and slow prey. That would be a great meal for a wolf pack. We hate to think of anything going extinct but we can't keep every species alive with humans around.

 

[DumansArk]

A quote from this article: http://www.arizonadailyindependent.com/ ... h-america/

"Even environmentalists should know that wolves are predators and will attack anything given the right circumstances. The claim that there have been no wolf attacks on humans in North America is shown to be a myth."

But I hear that one spouted all the time. Sad. You said it CoyoteJoe; if people only lived near them. History paints a very different picture of them than the one we see today.

 

[coyotejoe]

On another website I got a reply from an Alaskan native trapper. He said up there you need not fear a wolf or two but if the pack numbers five or more you had better be prepared for an attack. That makes sense to me since even docile house pet dogs may become aggressive in a pack. Even my two dogs, a Border Collie and a German Shorthair act differently together than alone, together they seem to egg each other on and try to outdo each other, alone they are much more responsive to me.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

On another website I got a reply from an Alaskan native trapper. He said up there you need not fear a wolf or two but if the pack numbers five or more you had better be prepared for an attack.

That makes perfect sense, since newly formed packs of just two animals (or solo wolves) tend to hunt smaller game like rabbits or even mice.

Farley Mowat wrote a book 'Never Cry Wolf' detailing his experience as a young biologist studying arctic wolves. He found that at times wolves subsisted on a diet of mainly mice. Other naturalist pshawed this, so to prove the point that it was possible, he began catching the mice that would invade his tent and did the same.

I can't remember where I read it (I used to read a lot of books by biologists and/or naturalists), but according to this trapper, single wolves are total pansies when confronted by a human. At least an alpha human... :? He used a lot of pit traps and would just jump down into the pit with the (cowering) wolf and grab it by the muzzle to break its neck.

 

[akane]

Sometimes coyotes are as bad as wolves even in rural areas. We've had bold coyotes and coyotes are hunted heavily in season plus out of season if they appear on a property with livestock. I've nearly walked in to the things in the dark going from house to stable and they just stand there staring at you. They don't usually try to attack at least. Probably because they don't form packs. Just females training pups to hunt during part of the year and then you only run into 1 or 2 at a time. People in the area have lost livestock though. You have to be careful if your dog wanders even if they are no threat to livestock because the sheep ranchers are shoot first, ask questions later. Large canines with bushy tails are targets. Which is all my dogs except the shiba's tail curls up but I had someone refuse to go near her because they were convinced she was a fox and wouldn't be talked out of it. :lol:

 

[skysthelimit]

The coyotes have been spotted in the metro parks here, as close as 10 miles from downtown. I used to walk there when the dogs were small, not anymore. Several people walking and on the border suburbs have had there small dogs attacked.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

My friend is a musher and he neighbors were having issues with wolves coming in and eating their dogs. Dogs go quiet around wolves and just cower.

They never had any issues however

 

[michaels4gardens]

My friend is a musher and he neighbors were having issues with wolves coming in and eating their dogs. Dogs go quiet around wolves and just cower.

They never had any issues however

I used to have Pyrenees , and Saints, and crosses between the two, to watch my livestock, -they did not cower.
after a few kills the predators just stayed away from my livestock. They were the death of coyotes, Mountain lions, and wolves.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

My friend is a musher and he neighbors were having issues with wolves coming in and eating their dogs. Dogs go quiet around wolves and just cower.

They never had any issues however

I used to have Pyrenees , and Saints, and crosses between the two, to watch my livestock, -they did not cower.
after a few kills the predators just stayed away from my livestock. They were the death of coyotes, Mountain lions, and wolves.

Sorry I was just going off what my friend was saying. Probably mostly applicable to huskies. They usually just found a collar left with no signs of a struggle, and the owners never heard anything.

 

[akane]

Huskies are not bred for protection or hunting so they don't really have that defensive instinct. Huskies are actually pretty bad bolters when the situation gets dangerous. I could see them getting picked off. I highly doubt my Japanese spitz would cower. They were bred to kill things much bigger than themselves. Up to bear size but they were never bred to exclusively hunt one thing so they had to judge whether to kill it or delay it for the hunter because it's too dangerous. They also went through periods of being used for protection and being used in dog fighting.

 

[skysthelimit]

Not sure about wolves, but the Shepherds do go after the coyotes, my sheep herding instructor has had her dogs chase off a few that get to close to the barn.

I sure would be interested in seeing and irish wolfhound in action.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Yep, it all depends on what a dog is bred to do. Our Aussies go berserk when they see a coyote outside of our fence line, but I don't know how they would handle one (or more) in a direct confrontation. They did tree a coon a couple of years ago, and those are pretty fierce.

I am a bit surprised by huskies being such wusses though- supposedly they are very close to wolves themselves.

I sure would be interested in seeing and irish wolfhound in action.

That would be a sight, wouldn't it? I imagine they hunt the same way as Great Danes, which were also used on wolves and boar. Unfortunately, I have seen Danes in action...

When I had my pair of Great Danes, they would hunt our barn cats. It got to be such a problem that we eventually confined them to a separate yard.

They worked as a team. We have a small fenced area that is maybe 10' by 25' where our propane tank is and we store our trash cans. One side is cut into a hill, so the fence on that side is only about 4' when standing outside.

They would chase a cat into the "trash yard" and one would circle around to the opposite side. The dog on the short side would agitate the cat over the fence enough that it would leap out on the opposite side- straight into the jaws of doom. :x

That was by far their favorite "trap", but they used other obstacles in the same way- I have no idea how they communicated their intent to each other, but one would always get in position for the other to chase the cat to them.

Tactically speaking, it was very impressive- but hard to appreciate at the time when my cats were being killed by my very own dogs. :angry:

I didn't mourn those dogs very much when they died.

 

[akane]

My shiba who is about 30 lbs usually does the distracting and cornering the animal. Then my 80lb akita does a fast stealth manuever and snaps the neck if possible or incapacitates them until I get there to take care of their prey. My Akita is death on coons. For some reason she has deemed them overly dangerous. I pull her off them if possible because I don't want the worry and vet bills if she messes up. They've also killed foxes.

 

[coyotejoe]

Coyotes specialize in small prey and thus tend to be solitary hunters. Wolves hunt in packs to take down large game. I doubt any dog would have a chance against even a few wolves, better to train your dog to avoid wolves and leave the wolf pack to us gun toting red necks. :lol: