wild cats!!!!!

[OneAcreFarm]

Cats are the bane of my existence. There are a couple that have decided to use the wildflower garden as their litter box. There is another one who constantly tries to attack my rabbits when I have them in the exercise pens even when I'm standing right there. They're everywhere they're pissing on everything. And in the summer? forget about sleeping with the window open the cat fights are horrendous. And none of these cats are strays. I can't even shoot them, so I'm resigned to chasing them away, chucking rocks at them, or spraying them with the hose.

Goodness! My cats are all fixed so maybe that is the difference in the behavior? Even I would get fed up with that! I would be so embarrassed if my cats tormented my neighbors that way. Lucky for me, mine are all really laid back. Have you said anything to the owners? Or would that even be worth trying?

 

[avdpas77]

My reply probably won't be popular. First, we should establish that there is a difference between, outside cats, wild indigenous cats (bobcats, lynxs, etc), feral cats. Bobcats etc are indigenous species and should be left to live. It is up to the owner to protect his livestock from them in some other way than eliminating or endangering the species. Outside cats, while they may take a few birds, etc are fed and cared for and are usually not a significant problem to wildlife. (It is the owners responsibility to see that his cats are not a problem to his neighbors and not a significant problem to wildlife) Pet are a privilege not a right to terrorize the neighborhood.

Feral cats, on the other hand are not a natural predator in the North American ecosystem, and should be eliminated. They are a bane to our wildlife, the Toms will kill any young male outside cats, and they are the refuse of people who don't take responsibility and scoff at the rights of others and of nature itself. True, it may not be the fault of the animal themselves, but there is no adequate solution except to eliminate them. It is also not the fault of the wren or the meadow lark, or the the chipmunk, which gets eliminated greatly in excess of the mink, fox, kestrel pressure that the should normally face. If I am going to be put in the position of determining whether a indigenous species live or an "exotic" (at least in the wild) it is the exotic one that is going to go.

 

[Jessykah]

My reply probably won't be popular. First, we should establish that there is a difference between, outside cats, wild indigenous cats (bobcats, lynxs, etc), feral cats. Bobcats etc are indigenous species and should be left to live. It is up to the owner to protect his livestock from them in some other way than eliminating or endangering the species. Outside cats, while they may take a few birds, etc are fed and cared for and are usually not a significant problem to wildlife. (It is the owners responsibility to see that his cats are not a problem to his neighbors and not a significant problem to wildlife) Pet are a privilege not a right to terrorize the neighborhood.

Feral cats, on the other hand are not a natural predator in the North American ecosystem, and should be eliminated. They are a bane to our wildlife, the Toms will kill any young male outside cats, and they are the refuse of people who don't take responsibility and scoff at the rights of others and of nature itself. True, it may not be the fault of the animal themselves, but there is no adequate solution except to eliminate them. It is also not the fault of the wren or the meadow lark, or the the chipmunk, which gets eliminated greatly in excess of the mink, fox, kestrel pressure that the should normally face. If I am going to be put in the position of determining whether a indigenous species live or an "exotic" (at least in the wild) it is the exotic one that is going to go.

I completely agree with you on the feral cat issue.

 

[MaggieJ]

My head agrees with you, AVD... but my heart, no. But then, I'm a cat lover.

From time to time, we get a feral cat hanging around here, using the protection of our sheds and hunting rodents. The rodent population goes down when one is around, but the wild birds seem about the same. Mice, voles and even rats are easier prey and more prevalent. Oddly enough, the ferals don't seem to get the chipmunks that hang out here, nor do they bother our free-range chickens. They steer well clear of the geese and cannot get at our rabbits. There never seems to be more than two around at a time and most do not stay long. I've never found them to be a problem.

Our own cat, Marilla, is an indoor cat with outdoor privileges. She is only outdoors with one of us and she always wears her harness and leash. We tie her to a long rope near where we are working and keep an eye on her. Having pets is a privilege and I just wish people would not acquire animals that they are not willing to care for their whole lives. Animals deserve better than to be considered disposable at the first inconvenience.

 

[avdpas77]

My head agrees with you, AVD... but my heart, no. But then, I'm a cat lover.

From time to time, we get a feral cat hanging around here, using the protection of our sheds and hunting rodents. The rodent population goes down when one is around, but the wild birds seem about the same. Mice, voles and even rats are easier prey and more prevalent. Oddly enough, the ferals don't seem to get the chipmunks that hang out here, nor do they bother our free-range chickens. They steer well clear of the geese and cannot get at our rabbits. There never seems to be more than two around at a time and most do not stay long. I've never found them to be a problem.

Our own cat, Marilla, is an indoor cat with outdoor privileges. She is only outdoors with one of us and she always wears her harness and leash. We tie her to a long rope near where we are working and keep an eye on her. Having pets is a privilege and I just wish people would not acquire animals that they are not willing to care for their whole lives. Animals deserve better than to be considered disposable at the first inconvenience.

Maggie, I understand completely. I take no joy in eliminating any animal. I, in fact, hesitated to post, because I know that you and many of the others on her have "pet" cats or mousers for their barn. I am in no way making any negative comment about those kinds of animals. Still if there is a feral cat about, the same as with a feral dog (or weasel, etc) I feel like it is our responsibility to the environment to, in some way, eliminate that threat (because it is the result of other selfish humans) This may be done by "rescuing" the individual, but that is not always a viable choice.

BTW...Hope you are having a great spring

 

[Jack]

Your cats that help out, are one thing,
other cats that are predatory and harm your setup/farm should be shot on site,

As for the wildlife, I'm with avd on this, they don't do much harm, and a good fence and they usually will leave you alone.
But feral, whether dogs or cats, yeah, I have little like or love for.

I would suggest carrying a .22 or pellet gun that is powerful enough to eliminate the problem, if you trap, I would do live, just in case you got a cat you know or one of your own, but I wouldn't bother the pound. You also can use the pistol on rats,
but I do like barn cats, as they tend to keep the ferals away and the rats down.

 

[JT_Hunter]

Here in ohio you go to jail for shooting ferel cats....go figure eh

 

[eco2pia]

I LOVE my cats, but there is no way they will stay in my yard.

Now, if I was in the middle of 100 acres and I had a mouse problem in a barn, MAYBE I would feel differently, but here in town, they dig and poop in my vegetable garden, possibly spreading disease, spray the front door of my house, my bicycles, my BBQ, my lawn chairs--anything you touch has the potential to be covered with urine, they try to fight with my cats through the window and tear up the window screens, they have kittens and the kittens are truly feral--terrified and beyond taming, their lives are brutal and short.

I put up a fence to prevent rampaging dogs from harrassing the rabbits, after losing 4 to a pair of German Shepherds that tore their feet off through the hutch floor toe by toe, and a Rottwiler and Pitbull jumped into the front yard and wouldn't let me into my own house.

I made the fence taller and the neighborhood cats decided my yard was their private hangout. I got a motion-sensor sprinkler, I chucked sloppy muck at them, yelled, chased them, laid down thorny branches in their digging places. Finally we got a dog of our own. Now I open the door and let out the dog. It is the only thing that made a difference.

I can't walk my dog out of my yard without getting literally attacked by loose dogs. I am extremely passionate about taking responsibility for your pets. I am sorry if my last post seemed harsh or intolerant...but I AM intolerant, of owners that inflict their pets on me.

My rabbits don't wander off my property and eat peoples' gardens, my dog stays in my house or yard and doesn't bark or menace the mailman, and the cats are indoor only. I don't see why anybody feels that it is ok to make their neighbors host their pets uninvited.

I am sorry for the rant, but nothing ticks me off more than irresponsible pet owners. I feel for the cats, but I can't afford to care for them all either. I am not suggesting killing them without the chance at a good home, but seriously, returning a feral cat, even a spayed feral cat, "to the wild" to continue to harrass people and wildlife is a lot like dumping unwanted rabbits in the country so that they can "live free"--it is neither responsible nor kind. I am sorry if that seems mean--I think a swift end via a .22 or a euth tech is kinder and more responsible.

No disrespect was meant to any member of rabbittalk. I am sorry if my irritation with irresponsible neighbors, and overworked code-enforcement officers, was interpreted for other than what it is--the rant of an extremely frustrated woman who feels herself to be under seige--and still isn't blaming the CATS.

 

[Jack]

If they are feral, save your self the money and pain, and put them down (and don't take them to the pound, new thing for the pound, euth now isn't included with the trap fee), as for the dogs, if they belong to anybody, call the COPS, seriously, just say that dangerous animal are in your yard, and either they respond, or the owners will need to pay you for the ammo and remove the bodies...

I have no love of feral dogs or cats, and yes I've had my share of experiences with them, like my neighbors in Oregon, who raised doberman pinchers and rotties, try getting chased by a pack of those and see how you feel.

 

[MaggieJ]

Eco2pia, I can't imagine having to live with a feral pet problem on that scale and I quite understand your reaction to it.

I guess we are just plain lucky here in so many ways. No one lets their dogs run. Twice in ten years I've seen dogs (the same pair) out on a spree when they've got out by accident. I've never seen a wild dog. Maybe they hang with the coyotes but coyotes are only around after dark. The feral cat problem is not huge. I guess my softie attitude would change fast in your circumstances.

Now it there were only some way of dropping irresponsible pet owners into the wilderness so they could see how it feels to be abandoned... :twisted:

 

[akane]

Everyone always says feral cats are someone's fault and the result of the worst pet owners but here they are their own little world. There are soooo many cats that no one can be held accountable for them. No one can feed and neuter all the semi-tame strays that show up much less the ferals. All discount neutering programs have gone under. You could put yourself $10k in the hole neutering everything you can catch and if you leave cat food outside you will still find yourself with more unaltered cats. Farmers train their dogs to kill cats so they don't end up with more cats than rodents. The rats are less destructive and disease carrying than cats. I'd rather deal with most wildlife than feral cats. Personally I think it's actually irresponsible to neuter and release the things. It's like me dumping a raccoon I live caught next to your property. You sure wouldn't be too thrilled even if I somehow neutered the thing. These aren't even native predators like a raccoon or possum. These are an introduced species that is taking over the ecosystem. Even my well fed, house raised farm cat could single handedly wipe out the purple finch population in the area. The last one I ever saw she was eating 5 years ago and they've never returned to nest since. The number of ferals surviving on wildlife has to be doing a lot of damage and they frequently stake out bird feeders and small livestock like quail, lost about 2 dozen to a large feral, or we more recently lost a bunch of baby rabbits in the colony to one. We now have screen door mesh up around the tops of the stalls to prevent cats being able to use the bars at the top to jump and climb over. They are horrible pests.

 

[fuzzy9]

Being a cat lover, this topic always tears at my heart strings. That being said, I do not have a problem agreeing with the statement that feral cats should be shot when they become a problem animal. We have a feral cat problem here in our area, and at all the surrounding farms around us. Even right next door. It isn't bad enough hers are always producing litters of kittens. The neighbor told my husband, if he sees them, shoot them. One of their cats was gone for a month, and came home with 12 additional strays. :angry: When our driveway buzzer goes off at midnight, I can guarantee you, 9 times out of 10, when you look out the window, it's a stray walking right up our driveway by the house. In the winter, they have a regular path from their house to ours. They are always on our patio, terrorizing my cats. I don't have an issue with them possibly hurting our rabbits, they can't get underneath the cages, and they can't get into the cages either. I do have an issue with them just getting in the barn at all, because they carry parasites, and disease. But it's such a big problem, there's just no control over it. There's just to many.

Last summer I had a pretty Persian show up on my patio. I knew it wasn't a stray, but it was sick, and after none of the neighbors claimed it, I brought it into the vet. After bringing it to the vet, by chance, I stopped at another neighbors further down, who wasn't home that day I went around asking who it belonged to. It was her cat. In our conversation with her that day, about cats, she commented, "if you ever need to get rid of a cat, just drop it off at the Amish farm down the road." She doesn't know me, and she surely doesn't know my love for cats, and that I could never "dump" one of mine. Inside I was horrified she even said that to me. I firmly believe people simply need to become more educated on this issue.

I also believe it is truly the animals who must suffer because of human neglect, and foolish behaviors. People choose not to spay or neuter, and let their cats run outside, left free to breed as they choose. Until people become more educated, and realize the only way to stop the feral cat problem is to stop the breeding, this will always continue to be a problem, and it's the animals who will continue to suffer. We can complain all we want, humans are the only solution to the problem.

 

[JT_Hunter]

I often think that people that treat their pets as a throw away item....probably treat their children the same way...<br /><br />__________ Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:25 am __________<br /><br />if you practice catch and release...that is fine...just release the little devels back in the city where they came from....not on someother persons property out in the country...

 

[Cattle Cait]

My reply probably won't be popular. First, we should establish that there is a difference between, outside cats, wild indigenous cats (bobcats, lynxs, etc), feral cats. Bobcats etc are indigenous species and should be left to live. It is up to the owner to protect his livestock from them in some other way than eliminating or endangering the species. Outside cats, while they may take a few birds, etc are fed and cared for and are usually not a significant problem to wildlife. (It is the owners responsibility to see that his cats are not a problem to his neighbors and not a significant problem to wildlife) Pet are a privilege not a right to terrorize the neighborhood.

Feral cats, on the other hand are not a natural predator in the North American ecosystem, and should be eliminated. They are a bane to our wildlife, the Toms will kill any young male outside cats, and they are the refuse of people who don't take responsibility and scoff at the rights of others and of nature itself. True, it may not be the fault of the animal themselves, but there is no adequate solution except to eliminate them. It is also not the fault of the wren or the meadow lark, or the the chipmunk, which gets eliminated greatly in excess of the mink, fox, kestrel pressure that the should normally face. If I am going to be put in the position of determining whether a indigenous species live or an "exotic" (at least in the wild) it is the exotic one that is going to go.

Your reply is popular with me!

 

[mountainrabbits]

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

State motto of Wyoming.

I love it!

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

You could say the issue of feral cats is exactly the same as the feral rabbit population.. they came from people dumping pets and were just successful at surviving and procreating! Remember the University in Victoria BC? All those rabbits came about because people dumped their pets and then their numbers escalated from there..Feral cats are the same, there is no need to save them. They are most defiantly a human caused problem!!

 

[ladysown]

Until people become more educated, and realize the only way to stop the feral cat problem is to stop the breeding, this will always continue to be a problem, and it's the animals who will continue to suffer

and this is one of the arguments that PETA, HSUS and other folks use to tell US that we cannot breed our stock.

it is NOT the breeders fault. And saying that it is the breeders fault (which is what you are saying when you say stop the breeding) negates the responsibility of the person that buys it.

To me it's like saying ... that the problem that exists with people dumping their garbage out down country roads...that the manufacturers should stop producing those items. They wouldn't accept accountability for it...so why should breeders?

The people who should be held accountable are the people who purchase whatever product it was that they just dumped...whether it be a cat, a dog, a diaper, or refrigerator.

ALL it signifies is a lack of concern for those who live where you are dumping whatever product it is that you are dumping. (and in the case of an animal it also signifies a lack of concern for the animal involved) THIS should be prosecuted. AND highly publicized so that hopefully people learn... if you can't care for it, or rehome it, then end it's existence. Plain and simple.

 

[fuzzy9]

it is NOT the breeders fault. And saying that it is the breeders fault (which is what you are saying when you say stop the breeding) negates the responsibility of the person that buys it.

First of all, there is no reason to sound hostile or upset, this should simply be a calm discussion. Secondly, I did not say "Breeder", please go back and read my post. I said "the only way to stop the feral cat problem is to stop the breeding", meaning anyone who allows their animals to breed, be it someone who breeds animals as a business, or someone who puts their animals out to the barn without doing the responsible thing, and having them spayed or neutered. I'm referring merely to cats, as it is the topic at hand right now. Personally, to me, breeding is breeding, no matter the source. But, I am a firm believer that RESPONSIBLE breeders, who care for their animals, sell healthy, genetically correct, and conformationally strong animals are not the main problem. Referring to my area again, the problem at hand is the farm animals, the cats dropped off, or born because of a lack of either education/knowledge, or simply someone who doesn't care. There are also many breeders out there who simply reproduce animals for the few bucks it brings in, and have not an ounce of compassion for the animals.

To me it's like saying ... that the problem that exists with people dumping their garbage out down country roads...that the manufacturers should stop producing those items. They wouldn't accept accountability for it...so why should breeders?

To me, this is a bit of an extreme example, there's just too many variables in this statement.

The people who should be held accountable are the people who purchase whatever product it was that they just dumped...whether it be a cat, a dog, a diaper, or refrigerator.

Again, referring only to cats, as it's the topic at hand. I agree, the people who throw the pets away, or put cats out in the barn without being altered, should be held accountable, and are probably the majority of people causing the problems. But, again I have to say, to me, breeding is breeding. Why is it necessary to keep reproducing litters of kittens, when the shelters are full, and beautiful cats are being destroyed daily. Would it not be the responsible thing to realize there are just to many out there, and cut back, if even for just a year? I don't agree that it's simply ok to turn the finger around, and point to someone else when it comes to blame. Shouldn't the breeders also be held accountable as well, for breeding, and adding to an already over saturated population? To simply look away, and say this problem doesn't pertain to me is wrong.

ALL it signifies is a lack of concern for those who live where you are dumping whatever product it is that you are dumping. (and in the case of an animal it also signifies a lack of concern for the animal involved) THIS should be prosecuted. AND highly publicized so that hopefully people learn... if you can't care for it, or rehome it, then end it's existence. Plain and simple.

Agreed.

 

[ladysown]

Geri, Hi.. Not upset, being my normal straightforward self adding emphasis to make a point.

AND I honestly don't see dumping a critter to be any different than dumping anything out. Don't want it any more, don't want to do the right thing by getting rid of it in the right manner, who cares who this might affect as long as it's not MY problem anymore. It's endemic to the society we live in I find. So cats, dogs, fridges, toys... just dump it or leave it.

And breeding for the most part is breeding...how do you regulate one without regulating the other? Your indiscriminate breeding...being that of.. I don't want to spay my cat so I'll let it out and dump the kittens somewhere if I can't sell them, or the breeder who has ONE pair of cats and breeds them... to the deliberate breeder. To the joe average person it's all one and the same. Just because you show and the other doesn't...what's the big diff they think. (I've experienced that mentality in the rabbit world so I"m quite positive it's around in the cat world). Either one supports breeding in all it's different forms or one doesn't. THIS not negating the negatives of breeding...aka the TRUE dog/cat/bunny/horse/degu etc mills...those should be stopped...but how to do so... I don't know...because regulation tends to hurt the good operators more than the bad ones.

I"m just SO leery of it being the 'breeding' that is blamed...when what it is, is the lack of foresight of the 'casual breeder' and/or the lack of care/concern on the part of the buyer/owner. It's not the breeding that's the blame...but the attitudes surrounding it.

forgive me if I'm too short on the point. Trying to be civil and calm...but the 'discrimination' point is a sensitive topic because it's a really hard one to define. Do I get fed up with the people who breed dog a to dog b just because "well...I can make a bit of money off her if she has puppies". and when asked...but what if you don't sell the puppies...ah well... we'll dump them off somewhere, they'll find homes. For sure I do. But how can I justify my breeding rabbits (and making money doing so) and get mad at them for doing the same thing? It's just a different scale.

 

[MaggieJ]

AND I honestly don't see dumping a critter to be any different than dumping anything out. Don't want it any more, don't want to do the right thing by getting rid of it in the right manner, who cares who this might affect as long as it's not MY problem anymore. It's endemic to the society we live in I find. So cats, dogs, fridges, toys... just dump it or leave it.

Fridges and toys and garbage are not living things with feelings, fears and needs. I cannot equate the two.