Why you have to tweak things

[ladysown]

I have two rabbits of similar lineage.

Both are blue-eyed white holland lops. Both bred within four days of each other.

Doe one: healthy strong kits from the get go.

Doe two: weak, unthrifty kits.

My normal routine in colder months is to flip the nest box at 15 days and remove it at 21 days. (in the summer I flip box at 10 days and remove at two weeks).

Did this with doe one. her kits continued to do well. Thriving in fact.

With Doe Two... I removed the box at four weeks. Two kits promptly died (mind one of them I expected to die for the past two weeks as it was NOT a thrifty kits at all). I planned the removal on a warmish winter day/night. I NEEDED to remove the box as the kits were sitting in it and getting poop stuck to themselves. I did line the cage floor with hay... but it mattered not. I am expecting at least one more of them to die and then I'll try to foster the remaining kit to my doe with 10 babies (get it lost in the shuffle as she's an easy care doe).

I find it vexing.

Same care. Same lineage. One litter a failure and I'm thinking of simply culling the doe as I don't want a repeat of this. Trying to decide if I aught to or not though. Should I give a second chance????

For those who cull harder...what would you do in this situation?

 

[grumpy]

Give them another chance and see what occurs. Rabbits are fickle critters to
begin with and one never knows where that next "diamond" will show itself.

Classic point: Two littermate does. One was a bit larger than her sister.
Put them side by side in brood pens and watched as they progressed.
The one looked GREAT!! While her sister was just So-So. By the end of their
third litter, "Big-Sis" took a ride on the Snake-Train, while little Sister was
chuckin' them babies out like a slot-machine... :x Go figure.

Looks are deceiving...one never knows.

grumpy.

 

[dangerbunny]

I would give her another shot, Grumpy is right, bunnies are fickle. If her next litter is weak then pet her out.

 

[cmfarm]

I have a similar situation going on. I have 2 does that are sisters that had litters 8 days apart. 1 had 7 but one was dead and the other had 6. So each had 6 live young (both first time moms). The one with the older litter just doesn't seem to produce as much milk. While she isn't doing horrible she isn't doing great either. Her sister seems to produce lots of milk and has very fat babies after feeding. I had to take one from the older litter and put it in with the younger's because it looked really thin (you would think with just 6 they should all do really well). Well that one finally looked fat this morning (it took a while, maybe s/he was weak). I will give the other mom another try but if things don't improve the next go around she may be out of here.

 

[Rainey]

Give them another chance and see what occurs. Rabbits are fickle critters to
begin with and one never knows where that next "diamond" will show itself.

Classic point: Two littermate does. One was a bit larger than her sister.
Put them side by side in brood pens and watched as they progressed.
The one looked GREAT!! While her sister was just So-So. By the end of their
third litter, "Big-Sis" took a ride on the Snake-Train, while little Sister was
chuckin' them babies out like a slot-machine... :x Go figure.

Looks are deceiving...one never knows.

grumpy.

I'm still trying to figure this out about what to keep and what to cull. So first you choose the ones that are healthy, grew well, have a good build (for meat in my case). Then you watch for them to reach breeding age and see 1) if they're willing to breed 2) if they kindle and how many 3) how well the kits grow (how good is the milk production). And along the way you notice their temperament. But how many chances do you give them? And even when they are performing satisfactorily, how long do you keep breeding them? Should you keep choosing the best from the best litters and replacing the older ones? And is the time you keep breeding them different for does than for bucks?
Sorry if I should have started a new thread--still unsure when to do so and when to ask in an existing one.

 

[ladysown]

Mine get two to three kicks at the can normally.

My figuring is this... if EVERYONE else is breeding and doing their thing well...why should I waste my time with a doe (or a buck) who aren't doing their thing well?

Reasoning?

Genetics carry over. Good genetics will carry you forward, bad genetics set you back. The genetics you look for will carry your herd forward. Let colour be your last guide as it's fixable the easiest.

Rabbits carry their poor genetics well. A poor breeding doe creates kits that are poor breeding. A happy eager breeder is where I want to start. From there I can work on size, temperament, milking ability, etc. If i don't have animals that want to breed without a lot of fuss, then I don't even have animals I can choose from.

My dad raised me to know that poor cow out of a great line will do your herd better than a good cow out of a poor line. The genetics behind the animal matter.

BUT if they won't breed well for you...just move 'em out as soon as you got that figured.
Then work on one or two aspects at a time and you'll get to where you want.

Sometimes I get frustrated and I just want to toss animals that are giving me a hard time (hence my...should I give this doe a second shot or not). Normally I can grin and bear the frustrations of rabbits, but there are times I want to chuck 'em and that's when any marginal animals hit my freezer pretty quick. Currently I have about four animals.. two I am trying to pet out as they are young dwarf seniors... and I'd rather than find homes then hit the freezer. One is a young meat doe that is just not as good weight wise as a younger sister who is gaining size on her rapidly (one month younger). The other a holland lop who is just not wanting to breed.....She's everything I want colour, size and temperament wise which is the ONLY reason i've cut her some slack, but won't breed so she'll be going to the dog food person unless she kindles in the next two weeks. (I've run her with a buck for almost a month so it's a do or die proposition for her). Just gets vexing at times....

 

[Rainey]

Genetics carry over. Good genetics will carry you forward, bad genetics set you back. The genetics you look for will carry your herd forward. Let colour be your last guide as it's fixable the easiest.

Rabbits carry their poor genetics well. A poor breeding doe creates kits that are poor breeding. A happy eager breeder is where I want to start. From there I can work on size, temperament, milking ability, etc. If i don't have animals that want to breed without a lot of fuss, then I don't even have animals I can choose from.


BUT if they won't breed well for you...just move 'em out as soon as you got that figured.
Then work on one or two aspects at a time and you'll get to where you want.

.

Thanks, this was helpful to me. I don't understand genetics very well and most of the discussions about it on RT seem to be about color. ( I like seeing what shows up in the nest box but color isn't really an issue for me since we're growing for meat and haven't done anything yet with fur) I haven't been able to follow the discussions about color--haven't learned the lingo, but there does seem to be agreement about what you get given certain parents, grandparents etc. Is there anything I could read that addresses the genetics of size, mothering, temperament--all the things that matter in raising our own meat--instead of just color?

 

[ladysown]

when it comes to breeding meat rabbits you need to breed with your end vision in mind and take it step by step to get there.

I've learned with my meat kits the following
1. check the box DAILY
2. Day three look for kits that have what I call "heft" to them. Doesn't matter their size, they need to feel solid and heavy for their size. THOSE ONES you watch. Baby kits change all the time.. big ones can be scrawny, the small ones feel big.. but at day three you can tell much about kits I find. If I can.. I'll take the worst of the bunch out of the litter and foster them to another doe. This gives the ones I am most interested in the full attention/benefit of their mom.
3. Stress them a bit at weaning. I do this because I have this recurrent bug thing that strikes seasonally... If I'm going to lose rabbits it's when the temperatures change or the wind shifts. A rabbit will go off feed and simply be done. I can't track it down but I can breed against it. I've cleaned, I've sold things off, Gotten all new cages, medicated and more.. I"ve done everything I can to lose it but I can't, so I breed against it and I'm winning more oft than not. I've learned that if weaning kits can handle stress then they'll be just fine "knock on wood".
4. keep the best and toss the rest. Don't let that fancy colour win you over. Or that winsome kit (we all get them) Take the best build and the biggest size and let everything else go. (if that's what you are breeding for).
5. keep evaluating your kits and hold back the best, putting them into twosomes and watch them grow. You'll get better growth doing that anyways.. as two bunnies on their own grow faster than three or more in a bigger cage. Why haven't a clue but that's just how it is.

So get out there and talk to the old-timers. Find out what they did.
Talk to the new comers and see what they are aiming for and how they are getting there.
There must be something in our archive you can buy with bunny dollars.

hope that helps.

 

[3mina]

:yeahthat: That's pretty much what I do with my herd. I'm working on a whole laundry list of traits and trying to keep the traits I already have.