WHY?! 😫

[JG3]

We just had a doe kindle a litter of 12. One died OTW. Anyway, last night, they’re 3 days old, the doe ate ALL the hay out of the nest, scattering the remaining 11 babies everywhere without warmth in the night, killing them. WHY? I don’t get it. She is well fed, we’ve upped her feed for winter and there was A LOT of hay in the nest, I don’t even know how she could eat it all! What the heck happened! This is her 3rd litter, she’s always been an amazing mama. My only thought is the cold weather but her last litter was born during same temps, it’s not that cold, and she didn’t do this. She had 8 then.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Not every rabbit is a good mother

 

[JG3]

Not every rabbit is a good mother

She’s proven herself excellent in the past and has even fostered kits for me. She’s a great mom, so something must have happened or changed, that is what I’m asking. What else could it be.

 

[Buknee]

I am so sorry. How heartbreaking.
Something probably spooked her or got into her cage. That is not a normal action for a proven doe three days later.

 

[Alaska Satin]

We just had a doe kindle a litter of 12. One died OTW. Anyway, last night, they’re 3 days old, the doe ate ALL the hay out of the nest, scattering the remaining 11 babies everywhere without warmth in the night, killing them. WHY? I don’t get it. She is well fed, we’ve upped her feed for winter and there was A LOT of hay in the nest, I don’t even know how she could eat it all! What the heck happened! This is her 3rd litter, she’s always been an amazing mama. My only thought is the cold weather but her last litter was born during same temps, it’s not that cold, and she didn’t do this. She had 8 then.

So sorry!!! Finding dead babies when you think you're out of the danger zone is crushing.
Two things jump to mind as possible explanations.
The first is mice... I've had does absolutely lose their minds when mice got into their cages and/or nest boxes while they had young kits. They usually tore up the nest and stomped every last kit. I'm assuming it was their attempt to kill the mice, but of course it totally backfired, not that they understood that. I've learned to have a zero-tolerance (or as close as realistically possible) approach to mice when I have pregnant or nursing does in the barn. They also often reject a nest box if it's had mice in it while it was in storage.
The other thought, is that this is the kind of thing I've come to almost expect when I breed (or used to breed) for December or January kindling. I've written about it on other threads, but I have by far the highest incidences of kindling outside the box, not covering litters, scattering litters, not feeding kits, abandoning nests, chewing ears/legs off, and every other malfunction you could list, during those two months. This includes new does, old does, and everyone in between. They don't *always* mess up, but it's dramatically more common than in other months. I don't think it has anything to do with the cold (I've had does do great at well below zero in the spring and fall), but more that their hormones are on winter watch and don't help the doe do what she needs to do.
I certainly wouldn't write her off, but make sure your barn is mouse-clean and give her another try in a month or two. February litters are nice.

 

[user 8990]

What a horrible thing to wake up to! Yesterday was a doozy for me too as my doe literally ate half of the litter of six.. it was gruesome.
First time mom but holy cow.
I wonder if it was a rat or mouse that she was reacting to. I’m so sorry.

 

[Buknee]

So sorry!!! Finding dead babies when you think you're out of the danger zone is crushing.
Two things jump to mind as possible explanations.
The first is mice... I've had does absolutely lose their minds when mice got into their cages and/or nest boxes while they had young kits. They usually tore up the nest and stomped every last kit. I'm assuming it was their attempt to kill the mice, but of course it totally backfired, not that they understood that. I've learned to have a zero-tolerance (or as close as realistically possible) approach to mice when I have pregnant or nursing does in the barn. They also often reject a nest box if it's had mice in it while it was in storage.
The other thought, is that this is the kind of thing I've come to almost expect when I breed (or used to breed) for December or January kindling. I've written about it on other threads, but I have by far the highest incidences of kindling outside the box, not covering litters, scattering litters, not feeding kits, abandoning nests, chewing ears/legs off, and every other malfunction you could list, during those two months. This includes new does, old does, and everyone in between. They don't *always* mess up, but it's dramatically more common than in other months. I don't think it has anything to do with the cold (I've had does do great at well below zero in the spring and fall), but more that their hormones are on winter watch and don't help the doe do what she needs to do.
I certainly wouldn't write her off, but make sure your barn is mouse-clean and give her another try in a month or two. February litters are nice.

Exactly! Thank you for this information. I have been thinking that it is the time of year. I have literally not had any issues with my does until November/December this year. It has been quite challenging. I pray that my FG doe due to kindle in January will be okay.

I had two litters in February last year and they were fine. So next winter I will be taking a few months off of the breeding/kindling as well.

I always appreciate your experienced input!

Blessings, Sharon
Bella Rose Rabbitry

 

[JG3]

Thank you, all. I’m just glad my husband was the one who happened upon that. I couldnt have done it. I’ve removed the odd dead kit, but a whole litter

Thats interesting about December/January. I wonder why those are hard months. We can’t breed during the summer because it’s too hot, if we need to skip two months in winter too, that doesn’t leave us very many litters a year.
We were going to rebreed, bringing them due mid-January, but now I’m worried we shouldn‘t. Our other doe didn’t end up being pregnant, today is day 35 and nothing, but that duo only had one fall off and she wasn’t too receptive, so not surprising.

There is no way a mouse could have got inside the cage, but it is possible she could have been spooked by something else.

Ugh, I’m just still so upset every time I think about it. Those poor kits and such a large litter to lose too.

 

[JG3]

What a horrible thing to wake up to! Yesterday was a doozy for me too as my doe literally ate half of the litter of six.. it was gruesome.
First time mom but holy cow.
I wonder if it was a rat or mouse that she was reacting to. I’m so sorry.

Ugh, I’m sorry you had an incident too. That happened to us with a first litter for a doe. She was a great mom after. Just her learning curve for you, too, hopefully.

 

[MuddyFarms]

Just curious- do you have them in a building or an outdoor situation?

 

[JG3]

Just curious- do you have them in a building or an outdoor situation?

They are in outdoor hutches, three sided and we block the 4th when needed. There is also a fence surrounding two sides and a tree in front/over.

 

[ladysown]

if I might make a suggestion. Sometimes, in the winter, it is helpful to shelves kits. Put them in an empty cage overnight and then leave them with mom during the day until late evening. They way to give the kits the best chance of survival, and give mom the best chance of success during those difficult months.

 

[JG3]

if I might make a suggestion. Sometimes, in the winter, it is helpful to shelves kits. Put them in an empty cage overnight and then leave them with mom during the day until late evening. They way to give the kits the best chance of survival, and give mom the best chance of success during those difficult months.

I was toying with trying this method. If the doe typically feeds in the night though, will she still feed when they get placed back in with her? I never ever see them feed, but I think I always catch them right after when I feed the rabbits in the morning, so, they must feed in the early morning hours.

 

[ladysown]

When I pull kits, I pull them just before I go to bed (so 10ish) and put them back in 715ish. 98% of my does feed them immediately. I often find they have just been fed when I pull the kits. It is important to put them some place secure.

 

[MaggieJ]

I wonder if the very short days in December/January could have anything to do with the high kit mortality during those months. It's the only factor I can think of that points to that time of the year.

JG3, you seem confident that rodents can't get into the cage, but I've known rats to enter and exit through J-feeders that don't have lids, doors that don't fit tightly and so forth. It does sound like something spooked the doe, so please double check the cages. Just to be certain. Rats can get in anything larger than 1 inch diameter and mice through even smaller holes.

 

[MuddyFarms]

They are in outdoor hutches, three sided and we block the 4th when needed. There is also a fence surrounding two sides and a tree in front/over.

Okay. I found (when I had rabbits outside) that I had a lot of issues with a doe and her litters. Flapping from tarps in a storm (even a snowstorm), thunder or lightning, banging on the hutches from anything in the wind, or even just wind itself- all of it can be enough to spook a doe that’s on a new litter, even if she normally wouldn’t be concerned by it. Do you know if there was any change in the weather that night?

Also, are these nests with solid floors? I’m guessing you didn’t find straw under the cage and that’s why you said she must have eaten it.

 

[MuddyFarms]

For my litters currently, we have been bringing them into a garage to keep them from getting out of the nest boxes and freezing, until they can get back in alright. The does and litters have been adjusting really well to our schedule, instead of us to theirs. We do try to take them down as far apart as possible between morning and night, but it’s not too bad.

We leave the bunnies down with the does for about 30 minutes and then bring them back up. Sometimes the does hop in immediately and other times they wait for some privacy once we leave.

We have been having temps below 0 degrees F off and on outside (a little warmer in their building), and this is saving bunnies for us.

 

[JG3]

I wonder if the very short days in December/January could have anything to do with the high kit mortality during those months. It's the only factor I can think of that points to that time of the year.

JG3, you seem confident that rodents can't get into the cage, but I've known rats to enter and exit through J-feeders that don't have lids, doors that don't fit tightly and so forth. It does sound like something spooked the doe, so please double check the cages. Just to be certain. Rats can get in anything larger than 1 inch diameter and mice through even smaller holes.

I’ll definitely check them over to be sure.

 

[JG3]

Okay. I found (when I had rabbits outside) that I had a lot of issues with a doe and her litters. Flapping from tarps in a storm (even a snowstorm), thunder or lightning, banging on the hutches from anything in the wind, or even just wind itself- all of it can be enough to spook a doe that’s on a new litter, even if she normally wouldn’t be concerned by it. Do you know if there was any change in the weather that night?

Also, are these nests with solid floors? I’m guessing you didn’t find straw under the cage and that’s why you said she must have eaten it.

No weather changes that night. I will be extra mindful of that though with future litters.

The nest bottoms are semi-solid. There are two grates that go in the bottom, one more open and the other more solid with just tiny holes in it. They’re basically solid once the hay pieces work their way down between the two. Nothing falls out from underneath of them. Just every last piece of hay from inside the nest was gone. It was only her fur and scattered kits left.

 

[Scooter1A]

We just had a doe kindle a litter of 12. One died OTW. Anyway, last night, they’re 3 days old, the doe ate ALL the hay out of the nest, scattering the remaining 11 babies everywhere without warmth in the night, killing them. WHY? I don’t get it. She is well fed, we’ve upped her feed for winter and there was A LOT of hay in the nest, I don’t even know how she could eat it all! What the heck happened! This is her 3rd litter, she’s always been an amazing mama. My only thought is the cold weather but her last litter was born during same temps, it’s not that cold, and she didn’t do this. She had 8 then.

what is her cage situation? any other rabbits possibly get in? Rabbits...who can figure 'em. I would have been shocked to find that. Hang in there.