ladyhen
Well-known member
Assuming the black is out of blacks and the blue is out of blues - will they primarily throw blacks, blues and steels?
When you breed a black to a blue...
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If i have this correct... You 'should' get Blacks.
Black is dominant...Blue recessive. IF the black is carrying a blue gene... You could then get blue.
( did i get it correct ?)
The young from this breeding should all be carrying blue... Then you could come up with blues...
Black is dominant...Blue recessive. IF the black is carrying a blue gene... You could then get blue.
( did i get it correct ?)
The young from this breeding should all be carrying blue... Then you could come up with blues...
ladyhen
Well-known member
That makes sense. Thank you!
I'm just starting and have a black dutch buck. I'm thinking I need to get a blue doe.
I'm just starting and have a black dutch buck. I'm thinking I need to get a blue doe.
Random Rabbit is right. Black can carry blue, but it would be likely to appear on a 3 generation pedigree somewhere. Not impossible to carry it from further back, just a little less likely.
moonkitten
Well-known member
eco2pia":1ia3g52m said:
Something to keep in mind is that the pedigree only lists one rabbit from each litter/generation. For example, if a litter of 7 had 4 black and 3 blue and you bought the black, it would not show anywhere that there were also 3 blues in that litter. For show rabbits where the breeder is actively showing/selling the blacks and culling the blues, you could quite easily get an all black pedigree where siblings to the listed rabbits in any generation might have been blue meat culls.
Pedigrees are good to tell you what colours are there for sure (especially in parent colour) but they don't help to eliminate recessive colours because they just don't provide enough information on the WHOLE litter in each generation.
very, true. thanks for filling in the blanks--I got lazy! 
Rather than think of it as the "black gene" and the "blue gene" I like to think of it as "intense" or "dilute" color.
This way I can see the bigger picture. I recognize that it's dependent on the "D" gene.
If the parents are both black they could be:
DD [homozygous intense] or
Dd [heterozygous intense]
If of one was blue it could only be dd [homozygous dilute]
If they are heterozygous intense they can have kits that are both black: DD, Dd and Blue dd.
You can't tell by looking at the black kits which genotype [DD or Dd] they have. They have the "black" phenotype but
since they always have 2 genes for each characteristic, the recessive gene could be there too and you don't know it
until you breed to another animal who also carries that recessive gene. Then, voila! you have blue, or opal, or lilac
lynx out of black or castor or chocolate or amber.
That's what i love about breeding rabbits. Each litter can give me a new surprise and more information about the parents.
This way I can see the bigger picture. I recognize that it's dependent on the "D" gene.
If the parents are both black they could be:
DD [homozygous intense] or
Dd [heterozygous intense]
If of one was blue it could only be dd [homozygous dilute]
If they are heterozygous intense they can have kits that are both black: DD, Dd and Blue dd.
You can't tell by looking at the black kits which genotype [DD or Dd] they have. They have the "black" phenotype but
since they always have 2 genes for each characteristic, the recessive gene could be there too and you don't know it
until you breed to another animal who also carries that recessive gene. Then, voila! you have blue, or opal, or lilac
lynx out of black or castor or chocolate or amber.
That's what i love about breeding rabbits. Each litter can give me a new surprise and more information about the parents.
ladyhen
Well-known member
Thank you!
I love both colors (black/blue) and also the light varieties of chocolate. But I want to try to avoid developing "unrecognized colors" if that makes sense (working with Dutch - so acceptable colors are limited.) I looked at a little doe last week that was the offspring of a black doe and chocolate buck and they said she was not an allowed color.
The man I ended up buying from has been breeding dutch for decades and I'm pretty sure he doesn't cross his color lines.
I love both colors (black/blue) and also the light varieties of chocolate. But I want to try to avoid developing "unrecognized colors" if that makes sense (working with Dutch - so acceptable colors are limited.) I looked at a little doe last week that was the offspring of a black doe and chocolate buck and they said she was not an allowed color.
The man I ended up buying from has been breeding dutch for decades and I'm pretty sure he doesn't cross his color lines.
I'm not familiar with the recognized colors for dutch so I just looked them up and I can see that if lilac is NOT a recognized color for Dutch [the dilute of chocolate] then it would be possible to get a "non-recognized color" by breeding a chocolate who carries the "d" gene to a black that carries the "b" brown gene as well as the "d" dilute gene. It would also be possible if the chocolate was bred to another chocolate, if they both carried dilute. Since there are only about 6 recognized colors in dutch, if I were showing and concerned about only having those colors in my barn I can see why you would want to only be breeding homozygous DD chocolates and sticking to and probably NOT breeding the chocolate to another color, since there is no other color that I can see that is recognized with the chocolate gene.
I see that there is a color called gold. What is that? I'm not familiar with the what genotype would be giving that color.
I see that there is a color called gold. What is that? I'm not familiar with the what genotype would be giving that color.
ladyhen
Well-known member
The yellow (gold) color is only recognized in the UK. I have NO idea on the genotype. Would it be considered "fawn" here?
Re: chocolate, I have seen various shades called this. One rabbit that I saw last week who has been apparently winning as a chocolate was very light in color.
I'm thinking the most simple thing to do is stick to black/steel/blue when buying stock and if I get some surprises in the nesting box, so be it.
Re: chocolate, I have seen various shades called this. One rabbit that I saw last week who has been apparently winning as a chocolate was very light in color.
I'm thinking the most simple thing to do is stick to black/steel/blue when buying stock and if I get some surprises in the nesting box, so be it.
You can stick Es -steel on anything so what base colors of steel are acceptable? I only see one steel listed and it appears to be black based but usually when used by itself steel means a chestnut agouti with Es so unless the grey dutch is blue/opal steel your steel/blue crosses aren't going to be accepted. You may also be crossing agouti with self depending what the base is for the dutch steel color. If the steel base is agouti then any steel tipped blacks from black x steel would not be accepted either.
It seems breeding dutch rabbits it's best to pick 1 or 2 colors and stick with them. If you like chocolate you could breed black and chocolate safely if you know neither line carries dilute. Breeding black lines in to chocolate occasionally is suggested in mini rex because it makes the color dark/richer and often improves the coat quality. Over generations of chocolate x chocolate breeding you can end up with very light chocolates that don't show as well for mini rex. I found every black line I bought carried chocolate despite it rarely being on their pedigree because at some point the blacks were crossed with chocolate to improve the chocolates and the black offspring were then kept to continue the black line while the chocolate offspring were kept for the chocolate line. All the black offspring though would be carrying chocolate. A test mating or 2 of any blacks to blues would tell you if they carry dilute because you have 50/50 odds of getting blues from a cross to a blue if the black carries it so in a litter or 2 if you see no blues you can be fairly confident the black does not carry it. Same can be done with chocolate.
It seems breeding dutch rabbits it's best to pick 1 or 2 colors and stick with them. If you like chocolate you could breed black and chocolate safely if you know neither line carries dilute. Breeding black lines in to chocolate occasionally is suggested in mini rex because it makes the color dark/richer and often improves the coat quality. Over generations of chocolate x chocolate breeding you can end up with very light chocolates that don't show as well for mini rex. I found every black line I bought carried chocolate despite it rarely being on their pedigree because at some point the blacks were crossed with chocolate to improve the chocolates and the black offspring were then kept to continue the black line while the chocolate offspring were kept for the chocolate line. All the black offspring though would be carrying chocolate. A test mating or 2 of any blacks to blues would tell you if they carry dilute because you have 50/50 odds of getting blues from a cross to a blue if the black carries it so in a litter or 2 if you see no blues you can be fairly confident the black does not carry it. Same can be done with chocolate.
