What will I get when I cross ...

[BunnyBounce]

What information do I need to have an intelligent conversation about the probability of colors and genetics? Do I need a pedigree and to know the lineage of both parents?

I bred a blue tort lionhead with a rew netherland dwarf that carries the blue eye gene...
The babies all look identical at day one (see pic).

Any additional information out there on what I might get?

 

[Dood]

What information do I need to have an intelligent conversation about the probability of colors and genetics? Do I need a pedigree and to know the lineage of both parents?

It certainly helps. Knowing the colours of parents, grandparents, siblings and offspring from other matings can all be used to narrow down a rabbits genotype and help fill in the blanks.

Blue tort with single mane = aa B_ C_ dd ee vv Mm

REW carrying Vienna/BEW = __ __ cc __ __ Vv mm

Unfortunately REW and BEW can hide a rabbits true genetic colour so it will be harder to figure out their genetics.

By his picture it looks like you've got 4 self blacks and since they have a blue tort and REW parents they are ...
= aa B_ Cc Dd Ee __ __

Some will carry Vienna and be "Vv" and some won't - "vv"
Some will carry the mane gene -"Mm" and some won't - "mm"

 

[akane]

It would be helpful to know the colors of the parents especially of the rew. A rew can also be a bew and pass on 100% vienna carriers without you knowing it. Since all the kits look black the rew is probably a self (aa) but you can just get an odd litter with skewed results from an agouti carrying self (Aa). Further litters would give you a better idea of their genetics.

 

[BunnyBounce]

5 days old now -- pardon the little bit of wet.
It looks like their bellies are lighter colored!

 

[Dood]

They look greyish in this picture so maybe all blue self or the one on the right might be black. I do not see any tort or agouti markings.

 

[ladysown]

they all look blue to me ... that middle one is it lighter or is it just the lighting??

 

[BunnyBounce]

they all look blue to me ... that middle one is it lighter or is it just the lighting??

I'm trying to be quick with them, so mama isn't too stressed out.
I think it's just the lighting, but I'll check again today more closely when I handle them.
I also thought the 2nd from the left looked like it might have a slight lighter blaze between it's ears, but may also be the lighting...<br /><br />__________ Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:54 pm __________<br /><br />dood & ladysown ~ you're absolutely correct!
There are two that are definitely darker than the other two.
The two darker (self blacks maybe?) are all one color.
The two lighter (self blues maybe?) have lighter (cream or white?) bellies and under legs.
Would the latter be considered an agouti?

 

[Dood]

Pictures please

Because there is less fur on the belly it often looks lighter in selfs and agouti also have lighter rings around the eye, ears and back of the neck-none of which I see in the pictures you have up now.

 

[BunnyBounce]

The seller of our REW said that blue otter was very prominent in the pedigrees.
I apologize - the pictures are not the greatest. DH was in charge of photos and they were a little jumpy so I wasn't feeling comfortable opening up my hand much more than they are ...

 

[Dood]

Yup, I'd say blue otter - very nice :mrgreen:

I've never seen an otter lion head, please post pics as they mature

 

[BunnyBounce]

So excited! Can't wait to see them mature, too!<br /><br />__________ Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:11 pm __________<br /><br />What's the difference between blue otter and opal?

 

[Dood]

Opal has the agouti gene while blue otter has the tan gene.

Agouti have ring pattern so shorter hairs don't have the darker ticking on their tips and eyes, nose and ear rims look lighter and their bellies and undeside of tail are lighter shades (unless steel or wideband are modifying it )

Tans are selfs (hence no ring pattern) and have no black pigment in certain areas - eye brows, ear rims (but less when compared to agouti), their feet and belly.

 

[BunnyBounce]

Can't get enough of them!!!! opcorn:

 

[Dood]

Hummmmm

Looks like a self blue and an opal (blue agouyi) now

There are 4 in the litter right? Does the one still look otter?

 

[skysthelimit]

That does look opal now.

 

[BunnyBounce]

Ever changing babies! Sheesh!
Yep, there are 4.
I'll have to check again tonight. I think they're pretty similar looking, but I do remember that one is lighter looking than the other (and I think its the one pictured).

 

[akane]

The young pictures look like 2 black based and 2 blue based to me. Then the older picture looks like s self black and either black or blue agouti (chestnut or opal). I've never had opals because we liked to stick to self colors aside from the creme d'argent. I got the odd chestnut from my meet mutts and owned 1 castor (mini rex black agouti) but we mostly got black self, black tort, and reds for some reason. Our blue line of mini rex were not crossed in to the mutts and the castor didn't carry dilute only self and we only kept her broken black offspring so blue agouti was never produced.

 

[BunnyBounce]

Here's the latest @ 2 weeks old today.

 

[skysthelimit]

looks even more like an opal now.

 

[BunnyBounce]

Here they are at 3 1/2 weeks! <br /><br /> __________ Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:21 pm __________ <br /><br /> Silly names, I know.
Beep is the one with white on its nose -- we call it beeping when they come up and nose-bump you.
Chin likes to chin mark things.
Dribble has a little line of white down her chin like a dribble of milk.
Coal -- well, he's all grey and round like a lump of coal. ;-)