What to do if it's Pasturella?

[dragonladyleanne]

One of the 2 does I bought for breeding stock has a swelling in her cheekbone/undereye area. She had a red lesion just above it, which oozed mostly clear with a pink tinge (as in mostly plasma with a few red blood cells) when I pressed it rubbing 3-in-1 antibacterial ointment into it yesterday. The swelling also subsided when I rubbed, so I thought it was mostly puffiness from trauma, such as a bug bite she may have scratched raw. This morning, that sore spot looks less raw, but the swelling has returned. I put more antibiotic on it, but she flinched away when I tried to feel if the swelling was an abscess. She was eager to eat however, and lively. I read one link here on Pasturella, and she has none of the other symptoms, but it seems like many rabbits only display some. She has her own cage, but only inches from the other rabbits. I got all my rabbits within weeks of each other, in June; plus 2 others were from her same breeder, so if it IS Pasturella, I gather they all have it? I can't afford to take her to the vet, if I can even find one who knows diddly about rabbits.

I guess I am asking several questions here: Should I try to lance the swelling? Should I try to get her to EAT the ointment? If she heals up, does that mean it was NOT Pasturella? If it IS P-, but she heals anyway, is it ok to breed her when she's of age? If she dies, or I cull her (loathe to do that as she's one of the two meant to be foundation stock), is her meat safe to eat? Especially if I cull her, but her lungs look ok? Should I yank her from the group? They've been quartered together 2 months, so unless it is a simple infected wound, I'd pretty much think that would be wasted effort, and maybe traumatic for her.

A lot of semi-bad stuff hitting at the same time, so this latest has me feeling really stupid and depressed

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I am really sorry this is happening to you. I hope it is just an infected cut and heals quickly.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

Well, it's looking HORRIBLE right now. On the one hand, that probably means it really IS an injury and happened yesterday sometime after my husband fed the rabbits their morning feed. We were both feeling horribly guilty, thinking she'd had it all weekend, and my husband (who stayed to care for the critters while I attended a wedding 500 miles away)just hadn't noticed, because he didn't really raise animals when he was younger. To him, lively hopping and a desire to eat meant a healthy rabbit, and she DOES tend to keep that side of her face turned away. But I am now thinking, since it WAS raw yesterday evening, and I managed to get a good amount of antibiotic in the wound then, and this morning it was NOT raw, but swollen more, and NOW it looks like she's been in a prize fight - I think it MUST have been an injury which happened yesterday. No other of the rabbits show any weepy eyes (in fact HER eye seems fine, except the inner eyelid came up when I was applying the ointment yesterday), or snot or sneezing or anything, soooo . . . I am going to wait it out. I gave her lots of Timothy hay just now, plus her pellets this morning. She had not quite finished the pellets, but I think I gave her more than usual, and she hopped over to her dish while I was giving out hay (afternoon is "treat" time, though only every other day for green stuff).<br /><br />__________ Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:04 pm __________<br /><br />Oh, and afternoon we change out icee bottles, and I sort of managed to put the fresh one up next to her face - she pressed the sore against it for a bit, then went back to her "bedspot" after nabbing a bite of hay. I am hoping that's a good sign? I just feel so helpless.

 

[Nyctra]

Perhaps she nicked herself with a toenail? :0

 

[MamaSheepdog]

It doesn't sound like the dreaded P-word to me, given that she was weeping the clear fluid.

Is there an open wound that you can insert the tip of a syringe or eye dropper into and flush it out with a weak solution of Betadine or iodine?

Can you post a picture so we can see the actual injury?

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm inclined to think it was an injury of some kind rather than pasteurella. A scratch with a toenail is a logical guess. Wait it out and keep us posted on developments. :clover: :clover: :clover:

Pictures would be helpful if it is feasible.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

I will see if we can get pix. Back soon.<br /><br />__________ Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:52 pm __________<br /><br />Glad y'all asked for a photo, I got my husband to take the pix after I set up with Schatzi in my lap, and it allowed me to get a better look, too. It's NOT a gash, but what apparently oozed yesterday was the center, a tiny red dot within the bare pink/white patch. She seems to have a hard "pone" under it, though it is right on her cheekbone, and is only about a half inch bigger than her opposite cheekbone. Now I am wondering if she got bitten by a yellowfly or something.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hmm. It looks very red and inflamed to me. Is it hot to the touch?

FYI, Floyd's pasteurella abscess was not hot, no hair loss, etc. I have dealt with a lot of abscesses on dogs and cats, and they typically have heat accompanied by hair loss before they burst.

 

[ladysown]

that location on the face.... abscessed tooth most likely.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

It didn't seem any hotter than the rest of her, though I wasn't "looking" for heat at the time. In general, the hairless area is smooth and pinky/white, like scar tissue, only a little more "give". I felt her cheekbone on both sides, so if there had been a marked difference in temp, I think I would have noticed. The swelling is firm, just slightly moveable. The only part that is red is a single dot about the size of a medium sharpie dot. Otherwise, it looks almost as if she'd popped a Necco wafer up above her teeth, perhaps a little more oval than round. I don't have a way to inject anything, though I could sterilize a sewing needle and lance the thing, but I am wondering if it's solid so nothing to lance? Besides which, one twitch and I could poke her eye.<br /><br />__________ Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:26 pm __________<br /><br />Darn, I just looked up "rabbit tooth problems" and I see what you mean, Ladysown. I didn't realize their teeth went that far up. It no longer seems to be very painful to her though, and it has that red dot in the middle, like an extreme allergic reaction to a bug bite. I wonder if children's Benadryl would help her? If the antibiotic helps, I am definitely putting more hay in their diet. Well, more in everyone else's NOW.

 

[Piper]

Is there any chance, that it is a small bot fly?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I was thinking it might be a tooth too, but you said she is eating fine, so I didn't mention it. Plus I have no idea how to check their teeth!

Piper might be right about the Bot fly too, but there should be a small hole in the wound to allow it (the maggot) to breathe.

I know that Benadryl can be given to rabbits, but I can't find recommended dosages anywhere on the net. However, my JRT had seasonal allergies, and the dose for him was 1-2 capsules, depending on severity. He was about 20lbs. Make sure the only active ingredient is diphenhydramine. If you do a Google search, you will see that Children's Benadryl is often used, but you are supposed to avoid ones with Sorbitol and other artificial sweeteners.

If it were my rabbit, and weighed 8-10lbs, I would just break open a capsule and mix with water, and give half the mixed amount. Allegedly it is pretty hard to OD on Benadryl.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

Is there any chance, that it is a small bot fly?

I have been thinking SOME sort of bug bite. We have lots of them, and no way an outdoor animal does not get some bites. Just read what I could find about bot flies, and we certainly DO have some red eyed flies, I noticed a bunch when my dog had her "seizure" earlier this summer, though the vet checked her for all sorts of kidney failure and whatnot, and only found her slightly dehydrated, and probably "had a heatstroke". THAT episode, plus playing catchup on all the animals' shots and flea meds really dented my savings, and now I don't have enough to take the rabbits to a vet. The dot looks awfully small, if it IS a fly larva, can I paint that with calamine to smother it? Or is it already gone?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The dot looks awfully small, if it IS a fly larva, can I paint that with calamine to smother it? Or is it already gone?

The swelling indicates that if it is a Bot, it is still in there. You want to smother its air source, so need to apply a thick layer of something like petroleum jelly on the wound.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

I have diphenhydramine HCL tablets, for my own allergies, perhaps I can grind one up and wet it enough to squirt a half tablet into her?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

What is the HCL part of it? I know that dogs can have hallucinations from some of the added ingredients that Benadryl sometimes has... but I don't remember the name of the active ingredient that causes them.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

The 3 in 1 ointment is petroleum jelly based, I think. So there's 2 things I can try tomorrow. Maybe won't help, but at least I'd be DOING something! Thank you all!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The ointment will work- just glob it on so you suffocate the little bugger- if little bugger there be!

 

[dragonladyleanne]

What is the HCL part of it? I know that dogs can have hallucinations from some of the added ingredients that Benadryl sometimes has... but I don't remember the name of the active ingredient that causes them.

It's not an added ingredient, it's the abbreviation for hydrochloride. The active ingredient's full chemical name is diphenhydramine hydrochloride - and try saying that in a UK pharmacy some time, you will get the "hairy eyeball"! :shock:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Okay. You are good to go then!

The first few times I gave it to my dog, it made him very sleepy. I read that it can make bunnies hyper though, so be prepared for either reaction.