What to ask before buying

[CaffeinatedBunnies]

Hi all,

New member of RT here; the nicest forum I've ever seen btw!

I'm slowly and cautiously inching towards taking the plunge on meat rabbits but first I'd love to have a bit more wisdom from everyone on RT. I'm curious what a new rabbit buyer should ask a breeder? What would you ask if you could go back in time and start your rabbit raising over again? Here's a few things I've thought about, please add some more!

1) Litter size and survival rate. -----I'm going to aim for 8+ kits per litter with 90%+ survival

2) Grow out time for the kits. -----I'd like them to hit 5lbs in 8-9 weeks

3) Breeding schedule and breeding success rate. -----I'm planning on a semi-intensive breeding schedule

4) Number of genetic lines in the herd. -----Although perhaps not strictly needed I'd like to have two genetic lines

5) Type of breeding program (line-breed, inbreed). -----I'd like to avoid inbreeding, again, perhaps not necessary but I'd like to avoid inbreeding

6) Records. -----I love data and records! And I'd like a breeder I'm buying from to have good records

7) Age of the rabbits. -----Related to records, I don't want to end up buying old rabbits on their last legs

Some of these are interrelated and some lead to other questions but those would fit best in another forum...how does it look for a starting place? Feel free to critique my expectations as well if anything is unrealistic!

-CB

 

[Marinea]

Those are great questions, and as a breeder, we would have a great conversation based on them. I would be able to answer those, show you how and what records I keep, and likely give you my contact info for future questions.

You will find various degrees of line breeding by experienced meat breeders. If they have a good performing line or lines, they will likely keep them going, making line decisions to try to improve the lines even more. If the breeder can discuss those goals, I would not rule them out based solely on their breeding lines.

I would add questions about past illnesses, as well as questions about current feed routines- pellets, hay, gathered greens, etc.

 

[Zass]

Looks like a good place to start. Careful about the 5 lbs in 8 weeks bit.
Experience has taught me that there are a lot of breeders who will strait up lie about that one. If you can see records, great! Buying kits at 8 weeks is good too, since you get to see what they weigh at that time.

What would you ask if you could go back in time and start your rabbit raising over again?

I'd have asked every single seller about the temperaments prevalent in a line. I did not like getting bitten by cage-aggressive brood does.

I wish I'd known that "a bit protective," or "a bit shy," can translate to: "mean biting animal" or "tramples kits in blind panic when you go to feed her, even though you talk softly the entire time so as to not spook any buns."

I wish I'd known how strong of a genetic component hormonal aggression can have. My silverfox and their crosses would be nice bunnies right up to puberty, and then turn into monsters, making the process of selecting for kits that would have nice tempers nearly impossible.


I have heard that there are advantages to having does who will protect their kits from other does in a colony, but I wouldn't really know anything about that, since I raise mine in cages to protect them from cocci.

Also, more calories is not equal to better growth with rabbits.
It's actually very easy to overdo things and end up with sick or overweight animals. (Fat rabbits fail to breed.)
With rabbits I find optimizing digestion produces the best growth for me.

 

[CaffeinatedBunnies]

Marinea and Zass, thanks much for the additional questions and considerations. You brought up some excellent points I hadn't thought about; I'll certainly be including them on my list.

Laughing at myself:

-----I'd like to avoid inbreeding, again, perhaps not necessary but I'd like to avoid inbreeding

Go go redundancy! (Coffee levels were low at posting time )


Hope everyone has a great day.

-CB

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hi CaffeinatedBunnies!

:welcomewagon:

New member of RT here; the nicest forum I've ever seen btw!

Thank you! We have a wonderful group of people here. Glad you decided to join us!

Go go redundancy! (Coffee levels were low at posting time )

:lol: Allow me to help you with that...

:coffeebath:

Actually, I would strongly recommend that you look for closely linebred/inbred rabbits. That is how you get consistency in your stock. I would avoid a pedigree with a bunch of outcrosses like the plague, because you will have no idea of what you will get. The individuals in your litters will vary way too much in type.

One of the most important questions you need to ask is regarding how they are housed and raised. If they are raised in an air conditioned barn and you are going to have them outside and live in a hot area, things wont go very well.

The other crucial thing to ask is their protocol for treating illness. Do they medicate their "sneezers" or do they terminally cull them?

A lot of people have "closed rabbitries", which can mean a variety of things; that they don't bring in new stock- or that they don't allow visitors to their barns for "bio-security". Many people in areas where there are a lot of animal rights activists are hesitant to allow visitors, and with good reason, since their rabbits may be stolen to "save them" from being eaten.

However, I personally would be hesitant to buy from a closed rabbitry that claims the reason is for bio-security, especially if the person shows their rabbits. If they are routinely exposed to other rabbits at shows, that claim doesn't hold water.

That said, my original stock were transported to me, so I never saw the conditions they were raised in, and the same goes for my other Rex rabbits who have all been purchased at shows. The only rabbits I have here that are from a barn I have visited are my Satins.

I don't sell many rabbits currently because I cull really hard and wont sell anything I would not keep and show myself, but when I first started out I would sell stock for meat breeding programs. I loved having people come to the barn because it gave me ample opportunity to teach them about rabbit raising, from breeding to butchering.

 

[ladysown]

you need to think about age though... an older rabbit who is still productive gets you ahead of the game.

1. she'll be experienced so the tendency to have a failed litter is reduced.
2. they are sometimes sold cheaper because they just want to move her out
3. you can always eat an older doe and does can produce for a long time unless they are bred intensively...some breeders only breed four times a year. Rabbits bred that infrequently can be active for a good five years.

So don't shy off older animals depending on how they were bred and if she's a great animal.

 

[CaffeinatedBunnies]

ladysown and MSD (That seems to be a common abbreviation for your name, hope it's OK if I adopt it too!)
Thanks for the additional thoughts, you both made good counter points to some of my original ideas. It's nice to get some experienced voices sharing opinions.

ladysown -- you mentioned in point #3 of your reply that a doe can be active for perhaps five years on an infrequent breeding schedule. I suppose there's no clear cut answer to this question but if they're bred more intensively, say 6 times a year how quickly does their active period reduce? Perhaps a better question would be this: generally speaking what's a good ballpark number of litters per year to aim for to strike a balance between meat production and brood doe lifespan? I'd like to produce as much meat as efficiently as possible but at the same time I want to take good care of my (future) breeders and not have unreasonable expectations for them.

MSD ---that giant swimming pool of coffee made me lol...and then I had go buy a cup of coffee; I was trying to fight it but that did me in haha! As I'm sure my name gives away, I enjoy a cup of coffee or two or three I've added your questions to my list of things to ask, especially the housing and raising questions; it get's smoking hot here in the Central Valley of Ca. No joke about the smoke in summer when there's fires all around and no wind to blow it away!

Thanks again to both of you.

-CB

 

[ladysown]

Does should be bred on a schedule that suits them and their owner.

I breed my does to be good with back to back breeding if necessary, but also able to take a longer break should it suit MY schedule.

This means that generally I am rebreeding them every 4-8 weeks. I don't breed in the summer for a variety of reasons... so I either sell off older rabbits (as in one or two years old) OR I keep the very best...those that had no ill kits of any sort, where all kits made it through weaning and either to my freezer or to successful sale.

Doing this my most successful rabbits stay with me for three years then I choose to pet them out (if suitable temperament) or sell to a new breeder only. Anything else gets culled dead. One such three year old doe successfully worked for her new owner for another two years.

Others breed their does to a more intensive schedule. I choose not to do that. (as in breeding back within one week of delivery). Those does tend to last only two years.

Once you have your herd set in mind what you want to have your rabbits do for you. Then breed to that end only. Mindless of colour...breed for what you want your rabbits to do. they are SO adaptable that people can successfully raise them to meet their expectations. It may take time, but if you know what you want, then you can ask questions...hope that people don't lie to you... and work more quickly to what your end goal is.

So if you want to breed your rabbits to produce quickly and well you don't want to buy from a guy who breeds his does twice a year... but you may also not wish to buy from a fellow to breeds back within the week because if he has bred to that end your does might get fat if not bred quite as intensively.

Breed by the condition of the doe.. thin does get a week or two longer before being bred back, fat does get bred sooner (or culled).. I DISLIKE my does running to fat as it makes them harder to breed.

Just like how you choose to feed will make a difference in what you buy as well

I measure feed EVERYTHING. If you don't clear it up, you get less regularly. I advise people to do the same with rabbits they purchase.. those who choose to free feed complain that my rabbits get fat. Well gee... you think maybe there is a reason????

Just like rabbits who are free fed and have (hopefully) learned to moderate their intake struggle when they come to my herd as I don't free fed.. but if I know they were free fed I will give them more than normal the first week and then cut them back to what I think they aught to be eating based on size and activity level. I've had some angry rabbits...but that where hay comes in handy.

have your end goal in mind... including how you feed, how you plan to breed and have that firmly fixed in your head (as much as you can ... knowing that goals may change) and then go in asking questions.

 

[CaffeinatedBunnies]

So many good points to keep in mind, I can feel the brain cells stretching!

I particularly like the point of having a firm goal in mind and sticking to it. It's so easy to get distracted by all the breeds and colors and possibilities!