Well, Ivory, my Holland doe is on day 31 with her second litter. First litter ended in 7 stillborn kits all on the wire. She pulled a tiny bit of fur this afternoon and scratched around a bit in the nest box, so I knew we were getting close. I then saw a little bloody show, in the box and on the wire so I knew she was either in labor or it was starting very soon. This evening I went out and found a dead kit on the wire. Went back maybe 45 minutes later and found another. I figured it was going to go just like last time...slowly but surely one dead kit after another. Ivory is very tame and friendly so I felt her belly and definitely felt movement! So, I'm somewhat hopeful that all is not lost. My hubby (and my back lol) won't allow me to sit all night in the rabbitry so I've brought her cage in the house where I can keep an eye on her from my chair. I'm hoping to catch a live kit, but I don't know what my chances are here. What's her deal with not having them in the box? I've put cardboard in the bottom of her cage so maybe the baby won't land on the wire this time. Oh, and she still feels absolutely full of babies. Her sides are literally bulging. It'll be so sad if we lose them all. Anything I can or should be doing for her? Thanks in advance for any help here.
What the heck?! Not again...
- Thread starter MamaMandy
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trinityoaks
Well-known member
Not sure whether it will help, but do you have any calcium drench for goats? You could put a tsp or two in her water. Another option would be a chewable Tums tablet, or even crush a calcium tablet (for humans) and put it in her water.
I don't think the problem is that they're landing on the wire. If you manage to catch her in the act of kindling, I'm thinking you may find that they are stillborn, or dying shortly after birth.
Hopefully others will chime in here, as well.
I don't think the problem is that they're landing on the wire. If you manage to catch her in the act of kindling, I'm thinking you may find that they are stillborn, or dying shortly after birth.
Hopefully others will chime in here, as well.
I don't have any of those things on hand. I think they are stillborn too, but after feeling movement, it gave me hope that if I caught her delivering I might be able to save one born alive by rubbing it and warming it, and then holding Ivory so it could nurse. She just doesn't seem to know what she's doing! I know that's typical for first timers, but I thought she'd do better this time. Is there any hope for the third time being the charm or is she just not a good breeder?
awww. Im sorry mandy. Normal for hollad to do this. I give her another try. Then if she still does it . Then i would remove from breeding . I would go with the calcium like trinityoaks said.That is all you really can do .
ottersatin
Well-known member
I always give them three chances to get it RIGHT!
Three strikes and they are OUT!
Ottersatin.
ldtimer:
Three strikes and they are OUT!
Ottersatin.
ldtimer:
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Mary Ann's Rabbitry":h49d4dug said:
__________ Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:35 am __________
ottersatin":h49d4dug said:I always give them three chances to get it RIGHT!
Three strikes and they are OUT!
Ottersatin.
Yes this is normal for hollands. The kits heads are big, and what is probably happening is she is having a hard time passing them, and they are dying on the way. The other kits still inside the birth canal are suffocating because of the holdup. Even after mine passed two dead kits, it was too late, the others were already dead and I had to pull them out one by one. Sometimes it take three or four times for a live litter, each litter tears the doe slightly and pushes apart the pelvic bone so the next litter has a better chance. Patriot did not have a successful litter until the third time. Matter of fact, I have not had one of the four hollands have live kits on the first or second try. Cinnabun is on try four. BAR6 is on try two. Now H missed her first try, and she had dead kits at the breeders, so if she does not at least have dead kits, this is her last try.
Hollands are a hard breed, which is why they are not my primary, only breed. I keep tums and lavender on land, and give them to every doe starting day 31 till day 10 past kindling.
Thanks everyone for all the info. I stayed up til almost 2 am with her and nothing was happening at all so I gave up and went to bed. I mean, I have 8 kids to take care of so I can't sleep all day! LOL I got up this morning to one more dead kit. It was a silvery white with a dark tail...maybe a Sable Point? She's a tort bred to a black. I felt her and amazingly there is still movement in there! I really thought they'd all be dead by now. I guess I need to get some Tums...what exactly do they help with? What are the chances of any of these being born alive?
skysthelimit
Well-known member
MamaMandy":2qpgvnzk said:
Calcium in tums helps with uterine contractions, to make sure she has the energy to sustain enough contractions to birth a kit. It is possible that she could have one live, but in my experience not a real good possibility.
trinityoaks
Well-known member
So sorry, Mandy! You'll definitely need to make sure she doesn't have any more kits in her. Retaining a dead kit will likely kill her.
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Do you have any lavender sprigs? I give those to help expel the contents of the uterus.
concreteblonde
Well-known member
Man am I glad I didn't choose hollands! The woman I bought my rabbits from had some but I thought they were too cute to butcher.
Concrete Blonde
Concrete Blonde
And Mandy,
Next time, you might try offering the tums each day from day 28 on ... she may not eat it until right before kindling, but she will know if/when she needs it.
My experienced doe will sometimes eat on day 28 and want another the morning she kindles, other times of the year she only wants it the day she kindles. I think a lot of it also depends on her feed at the time ... in the winter, pellets, hay, oats, BOSS, dry leaves and grass/weeds ... in the spring, early weeds, pellets, grass hay, oats, maybe BOSS, maybe butter cracker. And all my rabbits have a mineral block at all times.
Next time, you might try offering the tums each day from day 28 on ... she may not eat it until right before kindling, but she will know if/when she needs it.
My experienced doe will sometimes eat on day 28 and want another the morning she kindles, other times of the year she only wants it the day she kindles. I think a lot of it also depends on her feed at the time ... in the winter, pellets, hay, oats, BOSS, dry leaves and grass/weeds ... in the spring, early weeds, pellets, grass hay, oats, maybe BOSS, maybe butter cracker. And all my rabbits have a mineral block at all times.
Thanks everyone. I'll definitely try the calcium next time. I was sure I felt one more kit in her (after she delivered 5 dead ones) but I never saw anymore. I still feel something there but it feels squishier than before. I really hope it's not a kit. I don't know what will happen to her if it is! That can't be good. I don't have any lavender sprigs...I need something to induce labor if that is a kit. I want to give her one more chance but I'm afraid this is all going to end up killing her!
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Being bred will usually expel the contents of the uterus. I would not worry so much about killing her, more so about causing yourself serious frustration. That's where I'm at times three.
