What genetics do you see in these rabbits?

[Dimplz]

The two smaller rabbits are fosters from another test breeding. Keep in mind these are test breedings to uncover the hidden genes in my shaded agouti and his brother who a shaded sts.

The two smaller rabbits that look like siamese sables are from a test breed between my shagouti and a rew.

The other 4 are from my shaded sts crossed to a black torte.

What do you see?

I am excited to see what everyone says.

 

[Alaska Satin]

The two smaller rabbits are fosters from another test breeding. Keep in mind these are test breedings to uncover the hidden genes in my shaded agouti and his brother who a shaded sts.

The two smaller rabbits that look like siamese sables are from a test breed between my shagouti and a rew.

The other 4 are from my shaded sts crossed to a black torte.

What do you see?

I am excited to see what everyone says.

What is a shaded agouti? What is a shaded silver tipped steel? I've not heard those terms.

From a single photo of very young bunnies, it's hard to draw many firm conclusions, but I don't really see anything that looks like a siamese sable to me in this group.

The top kit is interesting; I'd say steel except for those pale inner ears, which I've never seen in steel, although I understand that sometimes it can happen.

The second and sixth from the top look like chestnuts.

The third looks like it's developing steel ticking.

The fourth looks like a black, but I can't tell if the details in its fur are shininess or ticking, or if the different hues are actually different shades or just lighting.

The fifth looks either black, or maybe seal (but if it's the kit from a REW, it can't be seal). Again, it's hard to tell what's real and what's an effect of the lighting.

Incidentally, in rabbits, the color tort (short for tortoise) is spelled without an e on the end. A torte is a fancy cake.

 

[ladysown]

Chestnut, potential steel, black is what I see.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Looks like steel, chestnut, steel, black, black, chestnut

 

[Dimplz]

What is a shaded agouti? What is a shaded silver tipped steel? I've not heard those terms.

From a single photo of very young bunnies, it's hard to draw many firm conclusions, but I don't really see anything that looks like a siamese sable to me in this group.

The top kit is interesting; I'd say steel except for those pale inner ears, which I've never seen in steel, although I understand that sometimes it can happen.

The second and sixth from the top look like chestnuts.

The third looks like it's developing steel ticking.

The fourth looks like a black, but I can't tell if the details in its fur are shininess or ticking, or if the different hues are actually different shades or just lighting.

The fifth looks either black, or maybe seal (but if it's the kit from a REW, it can't be seal). Again, it's hard to tell what's real and what's an effect of the lighting.

Incidentally, in rabbits, the color tort (short for tortoise) is spelled without an e on the end. A torte is a fancy cake.

A shaded agouti, or Shagouti is a term used to describe a rabbit who is agouti patterned with cchl coloring. I have one with the steel gene and one without. Both also have the silvering gene from a silverfox.

When I bred my shaded sts to a rew, I got kits that looked like regular chinchillas, sables, and solids. I got both gts and sts in that litter. Since it was a rew he was bred to, I know the color genes were his, and all the kits are albino carriers. He is Aa, so I undertstand the solids too.

When I bred my shaded agouti to a rew I got regular chinchillas, shaded agoutis, and sables. So I know his coloŕ genes too.

With the breeding to the tort, I uncovered his extension gene behind the steel gene. My shaded sts is EsE, and I believe at least one or two of the blacks is Ese, making an all black rabbit. I will not know if those are self, or agouti, unless I test breed for the pattern genes.

These are meat mutts, so I doubt I will be keeping any for breeding.

Thank you for correcting my spelling.

 

[Dimplz]

Chestnut, potential steel, black is what I see.

Me too. But since I am second guessing myself, I wanted others to take a look as well.

Thank you.

 

[Dimplz]

Looks like steel, chestnut, steel, black, black, chestnut

I agree. I also think the black ones could be Ese, which creates an all black rabbit without any ticking. So I sm curious if the are self or hidden steels.

I guess I will only know if I test breed.

 

[Alaska Satin]

I agree. I also think the black ones could be Ese, which creates an all black rabbit without any ticking. So I sm curious if the are self or hidden steels.

I guess I will only know if I test breed.

Several of us have some evidence that EsE doesn't always "hide" the steel. We've frequently seen black rabbits with a color that isn't quite "right," especially in comparison with real blacks. It changes as the rabbit develops, but the best way to describe it is that there is shadow ticking - the tiniest tips of gold on the ends of the hairs - especially around the shoulders/collar but also extending down the back and flanks. (So far I haven't seen any that have ticking on the ears.)

Because I have been breeding my Satins for so long, I know what to expect, so I can catch relatively subtle differences pretty quickly. Here's an example of the difference between <aa EsE> (front of photo) and <aa E_> (back of photo) with a steel in the middle. The color differences in the photos are real, not due to lighting.

 

[Dimplz]

I found this chart from an expert in genetics who is also been an ARBA judge for a long time. None of the rabbits in my litter between my sts and my tort can possibly be EsE. My tort can only give ee, and my sts is definately EsE. I have confirmed this through other test breedings as well. The kits in this litter can only be Ee, or Ese.

 

[Dimplz]

Several of us have some evidence that EsE doesn't always "hide" the steel. We've frequently seen black rabbits with a color that isn't quite "right," especially in comparison with real blacks. It changes as the rabbit develops, but the best way to describe it is that there is shadow ticking - the tiniest tips of gold on the ends of the hairs - especially around the shoulders/collar but also extending down the back and flanks. (So far I haven't seen any that have ticking on the ears.)

Because I have been breeding my Satins for so long, I know what to expect, so I can catch relatively subtle differences pretty quickly. Here's an example of the difference between <aa EsE> (front of photo) and <aa E_> (back of photo) with a steel in the middle. The color differences in the photos are real, not due to lighting.
View attachment 35471View attachment 35473

Nice rabbits. None of the rabbits from this litter are showing the steel gene yet. The chestnuts are regular agouti chestnuts and the blacks have not developed any ticking yet. Only time will tell.

This was a test to confirm his hidden extension gene is an E. So his kits can only have Es or E from him. I know almost the entire genotype of my sts now. AaB_cchlcchlDdEsE