So which type of buck do you suggest I get for her sire something along the lines of a white ears almost tricolored Continental or should I go towards something silver there's no Harlequin in my area in Connecticut or around my area lol
What colors will I get.. genetic experts needed LOL
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RabbitsOfTheCreek
Netherland Dwarf Breeder & Well-known Member
Looks like VM marks
I know. And I suspected that when I was reading of a breeder specializing in extreme VM marking, that was selling white ear kits. But, other sites say the single WE gene causes the white ear, white on the nose, and white toes; but the double WE gene causes a Charlie, all white except a little color near the rump. Another site in Spain said they had a white ear kit come up, eventually found a few cousin kits that also had white ear, and started breeding them. But the first generation of white ear to white ear did not produce any white ear kits. Eventually, they ended up with 50% white ear kits. So, if WE to WE gives NO WE kits in the first generation, something else must be going on. . .
Now when I watched the video at (they have English subtitles at the bottom of the screen, you don't need to turn subtitles on), the kits all seem to have dark eyes. He said that the white ears would occasionally pop up, the other rabbits had "only a few" white marks. So, is this something that is a variation on VM, or some weird combination of VM with En spotting, or something entirely different that looks somewhat the same, like Dutch resembles VM?
Okay. First of all, I can't quite tell if the buck is a chestnut agouti or some other color. It looks like brownish on the outside of the coat, but grayish underneath. If he is chestnut agouti, that is a dominant color on all the main genes, A for agouti, B for black, C for full color, D for dense (not dilute) color, and E for full extension of the dark colors down the hairshaft.
Harlequin is also an agouti pattern; black/orange and blue/fawn harlequin are black based (chocolate/orange and lilac/fawn harlequin are chocolate based); harlequin is full color, could be either dense or dilute, so far so good--the real kicker is the need for the harlequin e(j) which is recessive to everything but the orange/fawn ee. So you will not get harlequin in the first generation unless the buck carries a recessive harlequin gene. Be patient, breed one of his bucks out of your doe back to the original doe, and you should hopefully get a harlequin or two in the next generation.
If you have a harlequin doe, and you want harlequins quick, try an orange/fawn/red buck. They are double recessive ee, which is recessive to harlequin. You should get harlequin kits. If the doe carries an 'e' recessive as well, you might get half orange kits, and half harlequin.
Thank you guys so much you would think I would know this stuff but with Harlis it's a Toss up i was trying to find a buck that looked like her.... I think in the process I looked over a bunch of Orange and fawn color one s.... I'll check my local listings and try again maybe I'll come up with something for Sunday when I'm supposed to be getting this one LOL so I can let him know
So with the help of you guys one of these fawn colored ones is a buck and it's a Flemish Continental New Zealand cross which is fine with me. So what y'all are telling me is this color type contains the EJ or something even though they come from a mixed litter.... And I have more of a probable chance of getting harlis by breeding my female with one of these guys? If so I'm getting him tomorrow lol I like the color anyway.. jeez I'm gonna be a geneticist in training after this... Thanks guys!
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Not quite. There are five options on the 'E' gene, which determines how the dark color extends down the agouti hairshaft, in descending order of dominance. The strongest is called dominant black E(d), which is quite rare, where the agouti pattern looks like self black. Then steel E(s), where the middle yellowish agouti color band is pushed clear to the tips (which is why they are called gold-tipped steel). Then comes normal agouti coloration, called 'normal extension' E, with the normal color bands on the hairshaft. Then comes harlequin, where the color bands are on separate sections of skin instead of parts of a single hairshaft. Finally comes the most recessive of the bunch, the fawn/orange color, where the dark color doesn't extend down the hairshaft at all--the non-extension ee.
That's where the orange buck comes in. He carries two super recessive ee genes. Your doe is harlequin, which means to look harlequin she must be e(j) e(j) or e(j) e. Either way, her genetics are dominant over orange. If she is double harlequin, and he is double non-extension orange, all of the kits would carry one gene from each parent--e(j) e, and since harlequin is dominant over orange, the kits should look harlequin.
If she is e(j) e, she could give either option to her kits. If she gives the harlequin, the kit will be harlequin, if she gives the non-extension fawn, the kit will be orange. Of course, there are always other genes involved, for example, if they both carry a recessive albino gene, you could get some whites. Genetics always has some fun surprises. . .
This is the buck I picked.. he's adorable now.... There wasn't enough battery power to get a good flash but he's eight weeks old nice color Fawn / red with a little bit of brown on top of his tail I think they all have that LOL hopefully in a couple more months he'll be turning into a nice breeder... Hopefully my search is over... The female is only 4 months so she got 3 more to go until she can be bred at least...
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So my female who's about 5 months old now I stuffed her bedroom I call it in the back full of alhsay and she pulled fur...like a good amount and she's never even been next to a male since she was with her litter mates l!!!. Poor girl the girl who gave me her uses the same feed I do Blue seal deluxe show Hutch 17 the extruded kind, but she mixes lightly black oil sunflower seeds and just a little bit of mana pro here and there and some whole oats I know that feed is said to get them in the mood and used to keep them warm for the winter but that rabbit has a beautiful coat I started doing it for all the rabbits I have which isn't many right now.... King George is what I call the new buck... His father is full Flemish and his mother is a Flemish New Zealand mix they both looked huge at the property he told me this guy was 8 weeks but they all look a little small I think they're around 6 weeks he didn't speak very good English but either way with those kind of parents you can't turn up with small stock... I am invested in one of those baby scales you can buy online and use it on rabbits he weighs almost 4 lb he just doesn't have those huge ears but he's living the life of Riley as one would say.
Wild type is called Chestnut, or in Rex, I believe it is called Castor.
Either way the genetic code for wild type is A_B_C_D_E_. Fawn genotype is A_B_C_D_ee meaning a fawn is a full colored wild type tortoise.
According to my coat color reference book, to get Fawn or Castor, the agouti pattern must be present.
The fawns are wild type torts.This is probably the darker brown you were seeing. It was the homozygous affect of non-extension on the full color agouti pattern.
So your Sable's known genetics would be aaB_c(chl)_DDEe and the Broken Lilac known genotype would be aabbC_ddE_ En_.
So I am confused about the kits from the first pairing. You cannot get Agouti patterned rabbits from all self rabbits. Agouti cannot hide. It is a pattern that is dominant to all other patterns. My guess is that one of your rabbits is a false self.
So I had a good thing and a bad thing happened, I have a beautiful Continental female with the tri-colors and then I found a beautiful Continental male which I drove an hour and a half to find with the tricolors... The mail is about 5 months old I figured you know what let me give it a go because she's getting pretty chunky and she's about 9 months old now and I tried him for about 2 weeks I did the method switching out the cages and I feel like he just can't seem to get it right... Perhaps for his age and type he is still too young... On the other hand I still had the Sandy colored buck I put her with him and they went right to work.??? Curious to see what will come out of this I know I should have waited but she was getting really chunky even with feeding her grass and you know trying to stay healthy I know they're supposed to weigh a lot but this was fat I even have an outdoor pen for them they can run around... Hope this doesn't mess up my colorings colorings.... Either way I'm sure they'll be somebody on here that's always willing to help, that is why I always appreciate you guys so very much thank you
If by tricolor you mean something like this:
then it is essentially a broken harlequin <A_B_D_D_ej_Enen>. Being a broken colored rabbit <En en>, some people avoid breeding a tricolor to another broken or tricolored rabbit, since you'll likely get charlies <EnEn>, which have a tendency to have health problems (i.e. sluggish gastointestinal movement or megacolon).
A harlequin is an agouti-based color; instead of the orange and black pigments being arranged in bands on each hair, the harlequin allele <ej> instead sorts the black and orange onto different hairs. When you add the broken allele <En>, you get a broken harlequin, aka a tricolor.
Since harlequin is an agouti-based color, you want to avoid breeding her to a self buck (e.g. a black, blue, chocolate, lilac, tort or ermine). Actually the best bet would be to breed her to a harlequin buck, or if not...here's the great news...a sandy buck!
Sandy is a chestnut agouti, <A_B_C_D_E_enen> so it really was a decent match. And if your sandy buck just happens to carry an <ej> or non-extension <e> behind his full-extension <E> (an <e> could come from harlequin, tort or red in his background), you may very well get harlies and/or tricolors your first litter!The drawback with crossing to a sandy is that you can also get harlequinized chestnuts/sandies. So an even better match would be to breed breed her to a red, which is a chestnut agouti with two non-extension alleles <ee>. In that case you would get harlies and/or tris, and also reds if your tricolor doe carries <e> behind her harlequn <ej>. If she is homozygous for harlequin, i.e. if she is <ejej>, the whole litter with a red buck would be harlequin and/or tricolor. (The exception would be if both parents carry the allele for self <a>, in which case you could end up with self harlequins, basically torted harlequins with lots of smuttiness on ears/face/feet.... which is a good reason to avoid bringing self alleles into your tricolor line.)
Tricolor Doe: <A_B_C_D_ej_Enen>
Harlie buck: <A_B_C_D_ej_enen>
Sandy Buck: <A_B_C_D_E_enen>
Red buck: <A_B_C_D_ee enen>
I wouldn't worry too much about a 9-month-old doe being fat, and she sounds like she was ready to breed. For the really big rabbits, 5 months might well be too young for the buck; the giant breeds seem to take longer to mature. He'll probably figure it out in a few more months. Maybe in the meantime you can look for a red or harlequin girlfriend for him.
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Remember, everything with giant breeds takes longer. The gestation is longer, the growth rate and grow out rates are slower, resulting in slower maturity rates. Since their gestation is almost two weeks longer than regular commercial type meat breeds, 42-45 days vs 30-32 days, I would say the giant breeds would be about 2 or 3 months behind in maturity and hormonal growth. So maybe try him again in 3 months.
As far breeding goes, I would take Alaska Satin's advice and avoid breeding two brokens. Something about two copies of the broken gene causes genetic health issue known as megacolon. You should also do some research in to the Max Factor too.
I would be looking for a suitable doe for your new young buck, and breeding the offspring between them, and the other pair to get more of what you want. Always breed a solid to broken. Never broken to a broken.
As far breeding goes, I would take Alaska Satin's advice and avoid breeding two brokens. Something about two copies of the broken gene causes genetic health issue known as megacolon. You should also do some research in to the Max Factor too.
I would be looking for a suitable doe for your new young buck, and breeding the offspring between them, and the other pair to get more of what you want. Always breed a solid to broken. Never broken to a broken.
RabbitsOfTheCreek
Netherland Dwarf Breeder & Well-known Member
The period that it takes for all rabbit breeds to have Kits is 30-32 days
Breed size has no effect on gestation period
All domestic rabbits are pregnant for 32 days, give or take a couple days
All domestic rabbits are pregnant for 32 days, give or take a couple days
That is not what I have learned. I read a few years back in an old science journal that the larger rabbits can go 42 gestation. I have even had many other breeders confirm they have giant breeds and they go between 35-45 days.
