What colors are these siblings, please?

[Jasuji]

I'm struggling with color genetics and would appreciate some help identifying the color of these little bunnies from a "rainbow breeder".

Their mom is black self-chin with Lynx, Fawn, Cinnamon, Self Chin, REW, Black Otter, Siamese Sable, Chestnut and Broken Orange on her pedigree.

Their dad is Blue Otter with Chestnut, Blue Otter, Black Otter, Black, Broken Black Otter and Blue on his side.

I would like to breed them but don't know where to start because I'm not sure what color they are or what to breed them to for the best chance of getting an identifiable color. Any ideas? Thanks for your help.

 

[SableSteel]

Hello
The one on the left is a himalayan (possibly blue, or black based - both are showable), the one on the right is some shade of marten, I can't tell too well with the lighting. I'd look at pictures of black silver marten, blue silver marten, sable marten and seal marten to compare it to. A picture without the flash may help too.

Himalayans should be bred to himalayans or shadeds (not shaded tan pattern; self shadeds like siamese sable or smoke pearl). Selfs are okay too (like black, or blue).

 

[Jasuji]

Oh, thanks. I think the one on the right might be black silver marten. She's darker than the photo shows. She couldn't be seal because the self chin and blue otter wouldn't have two copies of chl to give her if they've produced a himi, right? I'm just getting started and have never had a seal so can't compare. But I didn't know if the white one was a himi or a shaded. But a shaded wouldn't have red eyes, right? She doesn't have much face color and her ears aren't really blue OR lilac as far as I can tell.

I'm confused as to why you would breed a himi to a shaded. What would that do for the himi? Or would you be hoping for better shaded offspring by breeding with a himi?
So I could breed both of them with a Siamese Sable or Smoke Pearl, but not with a Sable Marten, right? Is that because the black one already has one tan gene?
I really appreciate any advice from anyone. Thanks so much

 

[SableSteel]

Shadeds have to carry himi or rew, to have the proper shading. Breeding a shaded to a himi would get on average about half himi and half well-colored shadeds. If the shadeds don't carry himi or rew, then you don't get himis from that cross but it lightens up the shaded kits to the proper color.

You can breed both to a sable or smoke pearl, but you shouldn't breed himalayan to sable marten (you have a good chance of getting himi martens, which aren't showable)

 

[Jasuji]

Gosh, I have so much to learn. So the white himi has little face color and if I bred her to a smoke pearl, I would be hoping to improve that? Or would I be hoping for a nice shaded kit instead? I don't know how to improve my girl's lack of face color. Would it be better to breed her to another himi with better markings or a solid to get better himis? I don't know how the shaded gene works to improve a himi.

 

[SableSteel]

The himis markings change with age & temperature. They're born with small, light markings that get larger and darker with time (and fluctuate with the seasons - cold weather makes for big, dark markings). Her markings look about normal for her age.