What Color is This?

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MamaSheepdog

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This little doe is 5 weeks old, out of a REW and a broken black. She doesn't look dark enough to be a blue, and her hairs seem to be tipped with white.

This pic was taken indoors:

IMG_1426.JPG

These were taken outdoors in the shade:

IMG_1440.JPG

No ring color:

IMG_1438.JPG
 
Depends on what gene the buck carries on the C-locus, do you know his genotype? Cchl?
I suspect the chinchilla gene, but i'm not really familiar with it so i can't tell.
Looks like a non-agouti chinchilla, maybe self chin? Just guessing here..

Btw he just looks like my Eros, they have the same prettyboy face :D
Couldn't help myself :oops:
 
Wow beautiful !! Sorry I'm of no help on colour as I am still learning myself.
 
Disney":ozlh1ccb said:
Depends on what gene the buck carries on the C-locus, do you know his genotype? Cchl?

:hmm: Is that Greek you are speaking? :lol:

I have no idea... I recently got the rabbit register, but haven't entered all of the litter info into it. I am a total newbie when it comes to genetic markers.
 
My self chins look black. Who were the parents of the REW? Other than the lack of the agouti markings, I would say chin. Is this guy related to the steel buck you have? Perhaps it's that steel playing around.
 
The steel gene is coming out of Poppy's line (she is an opal), but the sire of both does (the steel and the REW) is the same, and he was a black.

Flurry (doe) aa?-?-?-enen

Quill (buck) aaB-C-D-E-Enen

I have no idea what the different color codes mean, or the meaning of each gene in the code as to placement. :?
 
The reason why i think of chin is because there is nothing on the A / E series that matches (chestnut, opal, harlequin, non extension)
That leaves only the C serie which contains, chinchilla gene, sable gene, himalayan gene and the Rew gene.
It's obviously none of the last 2 so that leaves either chld (chinchilla dark) or the chl (sable gene)
Again, i've never seen a self chin so i don't know how they would look like, but sky said they would look black so your buck might be dilute, blue self chin? Looking at the sable gene, smoke pearl would be the only option, though he looks different to me.
So the only explanation would be chin.. what we don't know if he is either agouti or self and black or blue, but i'm leaning on self blue chin.
I hope someone points it out, i'm curious.

Also, we would learn the answer if we knew what was on the pedigree of the sire.
The dam is Rew which is noted as 'cc' on the C series.
The sire is broken black so that indicates that he is a C_
We know he is full colored, otherwise he wouldn't be able to express the black color.
But what we want to know is what he carries beside the 'C' gene.. either chld or chl
So he would be Cchld or Cchl

Putting the genotypes of the parents against each other, let's see what the outcome would be
Cchl x cc =
Cc 50% (full color carrying Rew)
cchl 50% (chin carrying Rew, which would be the kit in question)

Do you know anything on the parents of the buck so we can fill in what he carries? That would point us to the answer.:)

__________ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:12 pm __________

Oh i almost forgot.. what does the kit's belly look like? Is it white like chestnut/orange's have? Or is it colored blue?
If colored, he would be self.. looking at his ears there is no lacing, which also indicates self.
 
I notice that when everyone writes out the gene sequence they use _ not -, but Rabbit Register does dashes. :?

I have only bred her to broken blacks so far, and am going to breed her to a solid blue next.

Disney-

Buck's parents:

Black Buck: aaB_CcDdE_enen Top side is all Black Otters. Bottom side is Black out of a REW and a Broken Blk Otter.

Broken Black Doe: aaB_CcDdE_Enen Top side is a broken blue out of a broken blue and an unlisted color. (Grr) Bottom side is a broken black out of a Black and a broken blue.
 
Isn't she the most adorable thing? :p

She isn't posed very well, but I think she has pretty good structure overall, and she is the largest kit in the litter. I think Flurry had 7 and lost three, so she is one of the heat tolerant kits to boot! :D

Queenpup and I want to keep her despite the lack of a butterfly, but it would be nice to know her color.
 
MamaSheepdog":1v9v6dk2 said:
I notice that when everyone writes out the gene sequence they use _ not -, but Rabbit Register does dashes. :?

I have only bred her to broken blacks so far, and am going to breed her to a solid blue next.

Disney-

Buck's parents:

Buck: aaB_CcDdE_enen
Doe: aaB_CcDdE_Enen

Well.. that's weird. :shock:
If his pedigree is correct (which i doubt)
Then your kit is full color like dad and thus one of these opal / blue / blue harlequin / blue tort
Well i don't believe he is any of those, i still think it has something to do with either the chinchilla or sable gene.
So the breeder has probably missed something..

Another thing that comes to my mind.. is it possible that the sire is actually Seal instead of black?
The kit on the right is seal aaB_chlchlD_E_
OR the sire is a black self chin aaB_chld_D_E_ (couldn't find a clear picture of one)
He is one or the other, there is no other possibility.. :?
P1120197.jpg
 
I think I was editing my post while you were posting- note the added info. I'm sure my blacks are black- they never have that brown cast to them that the kit above shows.

Could she be a broken blue with a lot of scattered white hairs which make her color seem lighter?
 
MamaSheepdog":2mnchldc said:
I think I was editing my post while you were posting- note the added info. I'm sure my blacks are black- they never have that brown cast to them that the kit above shows.

Could she be a broken blue with a lot of scattered white hairs which make her color seem lighter?

Not seal then, which leaves black self chin, doesn't show any brown shading like seal but is rather intermediate between darkbrown / black, which would make the kit a self blue chin and explain everything.

I doubt the rufus on the blue coloring would be reduced by scattered hairs, i have a couple of those blue's and they have the right blue color on them.

__________ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:02 pm __________

Here is a self black chin, and he looks just as black as a normal black..
snugbun_barry.jpg


Here is says that you actually can't see the difference between the 2, they look the same, only test breeding will clear out if he is actually fullcolor or chin. In this case, i vote for Chin.
http://rabbitsmarties.com/2011/07/rabbit-color-genetics-chinchilla-explained/
 
MamaSheepdog":1iuwlzp4 said:
The steel gene is coming out of Poppy's line (she is an opal), but the sire of both does (the steel and the REW) is the same, and he was a black.

Flurry (doe) aa?-?-?-enen

Quill (buck) aaB-C-D-E-Enen

I have no idea what the different color codes mean, or the meaning of each gene in the code as to placement. :?


So flurry is a self and the buck is a self? If they are both selfs, then it's not chin.

It could be a silver tipped steel or a blue with a lot of scattered white hairs that make the color seem lighter.
 
skysthelimit":1sw68x76 said:
MamaSheepdog":1sw68x76 said:
The steel gene is coming out of Poppy's line (she is an opal), but the sire of both does (the steel and the REW) is the same, and he was a black.

Flurry (doe) aa?-?-?-enen

Quill (buck) aaB-C-D-E-Enen

I have no idea what the different color codes mean, or the meaning of each gene in the code as to placement. :?


So flurry is a self and the buck is a self? If they are both selfs, then it's not chin.

It could be a silver tipped steel or a blue with a lot of scattered white hairs that make the color seem lighter.

Chin can be self too.. aa_cchld
The black hairs on the Agouti chin would be reduced leaving a color similar to this kit.

Steel doesn't show on self.. so if the rabbit is self and carries steel, it would automatically hide itself.
The steel gene is very complicated and nasty, i participially hate this gene because it's so unpredictable.
Steel does only show on agouti, and appears as a self rabbit with gold/silver tipped hairs, the belly would be color instead of white.
IF a normally colored agouti comes out of a steel pairing, then that rabbit is NOT a steel..

__________ Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:14 pm __________

2 blue brothers

Left one is Blue Steel
Right is blue with scattered white hairs, and a lot on the muzzle and feet (probably self hiding steel)

 
Disney":33tk9tyv said:
skysthelimit":33tk9tyv said:
MamaSheepdog":33tk9tyv said:
The steel gene is coming out of Poppy's line (she is an opal), but the sire of both does (the steel and the REW) is the same, and he was a black.

Flurry (doe) aa?-?-?-enen

Quill (buck) aaB-C-D-E-Enen

I have no idea what the different color codes mean, or the meaning of each gene in the code as to placement. :?


So flurry is a self and the buck is a self? If they are both selfs, then it's not chin.

It could be a silver tipped steel or a blue with a lot of scattered white hairs that make the color seem lighter.

Chin can be self too.. aa_cchld
The black hairs on the Agouti chin would be reduced leaving a color similar to this kit.


Then it would not be a true chin, by definition the chin is an agouti. It would look like a self, but genetically it cannot be a self. If you breed a self chin to a self, you will get chins. Only agoutis can produce agoutis. I mean chinchilla chl, not the other genes on the C locus, as sables and the shaded rabbits have a chin gene that is produced with aa. I don't even deal with those genes because they rarely present themselves in Rexes.

I don't deal with steel either, because it's a crazy gene, although very pretty.
 
skysthelimit":3vabuhvh said:
Then it would not be a true chin, by definition the chin is an agouti. It would look like a self, but genetically it cannot be a self. If you breed a self chin to a self, you will get chins. Only agoutis can produce agoutis. I mean chinchilla chl, not the other genes on the C locus, as sables and the shaded rabbits have a chin gene that is produced with aa. I don't even deal with those genes because they rarely present themselves in Rexe
I don't deal with steel either, because it's a crazy gene, although very pretty.

Well, now i'm confused..

Let me get this clear :?

Chin is only considered as chin when the agouti gene is present and therefor is a true chin?? A_chld
Self chin would be.. fake chin? the chin gene is there but it doesn't count? Ignored?
Self full color x self chin = self chin? I don't get it.. how can chld dominate the C gene?
Please point this out for me.. i don't want to mix anything up. :?

This my view on the C locus
aa_C = Black rabbit (full color gene)
aa_chld = Black looking rabbit (chinchilla dark gene)
aa_chlchl = Seal (has the chl gene 2x whereas Siamese Sable has 1)
aa_chl = Siamese sable (chinchilla light or sable able gene)
ch = Himalayan (Pointed White gene )
c = Rew hiding black (Rew)
 
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