What color is this rabbit?

[Blessed with pets]

Hello guys! So a friend of a friend was just really needing to get rid of her 2 Holland lop does so I just took them in today. One is a solid black and the other I can’t tell if she’s a lilac otter or just a lighter blue otter or some other kind of grey. She looks like she has some very subtle white ticking so I’m just not sure. I’d like your guys’ opinions on the matter. I put her next to my pedigreed blue otter doe for comparison.

 

[Blessed with pets]

 

[Alaska Satin]

Hello guys! So a friend of a friend was just really needing to get rid of her 2 Holland lop does so I just took them in today. One is a solid black and the other I can’t tell if she’s a lilac otter or just a lighter blue otter or some other kind of grey. She looks like she has some very subtle white ticking so I’m just not sure. I’d like your guys’ opinions on the matter. I put her next to my pedigreed blue otter doe for comparison.View attachment 37113

She doesn't have ring color so she's not a chinchilla, but it looks to me like she does have ticking. She may be a blue silver-tipped steel, which can show minimal agouti/marten markings. If she's very young, the steel ticking may still be coming in.

By the way, the other one doesn't look like a blue otter on my screen; she's way too chocolatey-brown across her back and seems like she may even be shaded. I'd be inclined to call her a sable marten except for the clear tan in her nose and foot marking (which would be only silvery, with no tan, on a sable marten). What's on your doe's pedigree?

 

[Blessed with pets]

She doesn't have ring color so she's not a chinchilla, but it looks to me like she does have ticking. She may be a blue silver-tipped steel, which can show minimal agouti/marten markings. If she's very young, the steel ticking may still be coming in.

By the way, the other one doesn't look like a blue otter on my screen; she's way too chocolatey-brown across her back and seems like she may even be shaded. I'd be inclined to call her a sable marten except for the clear tan in her nose and foot marking (which would be only silvery, with no tan, on a sable marten). What's on your doe's pedigree?

I think the bigger doe just has stained fur cause she’s really blue. But yeah for the other one I still can’t tell cause they said she is almost a year old but I feel like she’s really small but the other doe is also really big. I’ll put a pic of the black doe tomorrow because she might also have ticking I didn’t look very close. Here’s the bigger does pedigree

 

[Blessed with pets]

@judymac ive seen your comments on other posts and you seem to know a lot about colors. Just seeing if you could help me out

 

[Cosima]

To me it looks like you have a blue otter and a black otter

 

[Blessed with pets]

To me it looks like you have a blue otter and a black otter

This is a black otter


This is my rabbit. I really believe she is a blue otter. I just have no idea on the other one.

 

[Alaska Satin]

This is a black otter
This is my rabbit. I really believe she is a blue otter. I just have no idea on the other one.

Yes, in this second photo I'd certainly believe blue otter. It's amazing how photo and computer screen effects can conspire against clarity!
If you post a few other angles of the other one, especially her belly, it might be helpful. She looks like a blue silver-tipped steel, but steels usually have bellies nearly the same color as their backs. Very rarely do they have the light cream belly color of agoutis.

 

[judymac]

@judymac ive seen your comments on other posts and you seem to know a lot about colors. Just seeing if you could help me out

You have me at a disadvantage here, as I have never worked with the steel gene personally.

According to the Holland Lop Standard of Perfection, chinchillas have a pearl white surface band ticked with BLACK, then a black band, pearl white, and slate bands. Your doe appears to have white ticking, and no banding on most of the hairshaft. That would lead me to the same conclusion as @Alaska Satin, that this is a steel, not a poorly banded chinchilla.

The SOP for blue steel is for the color to run as deep as possible down the hairshaft. Since the ticking is white, there must be chinchilla in the genetics. Steel pushes the yellow-toned middle agouti band out to the end of the hairshaft, so the standard full color 'C-' rabbit like castor/chestnut agouti ends up with a slate gray coat and gold tips. The chinchilla gene 'c(chd)-' removes all yellow tones, leaving the tips pearl white--thus the silver tipped steels have chinchilla in their background.

Other steel requirements from the SOP are that the ticking is to be evenly distributed over the entire body (except the belly, which is permitted to be a lighter blue). Nape of the neck and around the nostrils (agouti marking areas) are allowed to be pearl white or blue. Upper tail to be blue, underside matching the belly. What color is her belly?

 

[Blessed with pets]

You have me at a disadvantage here, as I have never worked with the steel gene personally.
View attachment 37187
According to the Holland Lop Standard of Perfection, chinchillas have a pearl white surface band ticked with BLACK, then a black band, pearl white, and slate bands. Your doe appears to have white ticking, and no banding on most of the hairshaft. That would lead me to the same conclusion as @Alaska Satin, that this is a steel, not a poorly banded chinchilla.

The SOP for blue steel is for the color to run as deep as possible down the hairshaft. Since the ticking is white, there must be chinchilla in the genetics. Steel pushes the yellow-toned middle agouti band out to the end of the hairshaft, so the standard full color 'C-' rabbit like castor/chestnut agouti ends up with a slate gray coat and gold tips. The chinchilla gene 'c(chd)-' removes all yellow tones, leaving the tips pearl white--thus the silver tipped steels have chinchilla in their background.

Other steel requirements from the SOP are that the ticking is to be evenly distributed over the entire body (except the belly, which is permitted to be a lighter blue). Nape of the neck and around the nostrils (agouti marking areas) are allowed to be pearl white or blue. Upper tail to be blue, underside matching the belly. What color is her belly?

So I know nothing about the steel gene lol. The first that came to my brain were lilac otter, blue otter, or opal. The silvering cancels out all 3 and the lack of ring color cancels out opal. Her belly may be white and just stained cause she came to me covered In urine, I’m gonna try cleaning with a rag and hydrogen peroxide to see if I can get rid of some of the staining. Let me know what you think at second glance

 

[Blessed with pets]

Yes, in this second photo I'd certainly believe blue otter. It's amazing how photo and computer screen effects can conspire against clarity!
If you post a few other angles of the other one, especially her belly, it might be helpful. She looks like a blue silver-tipped steel, but steels usually have bellies nearly the same color as their backs. Very rarely do they have the light cream belly color of agoutis.

Lol! I posted more photos in response to another reply should be right above this,