What color is this and advice for future breedings

[WhWRabbitry]

As many of you know I'm newer to the rabbit world and thus quite ignorant on many things but loving learning so much! So humor my ignorance please.

This guy (Thomas) I had referred to as a Charlie due to his lack of color. Then I was reading somewhere online that if you bred a true Charlie to a Harlequin you would end up with all Tri-Color kits. Well in our first litter with him and our Black Japanese Harlequin doe there were 2 Magpie Harlequin, 2 Tri-color, and one Japanese Harlequin. - Thus from what I read he is not a true Charlie correct?
Thomas:

The Black Japanese Harlequin he just had a litter with:

He has some black, some gray, obviously mostly white but also has very, very light smudges of pale orangish/tan a couple places. I never even noticed them until recently they are so faint. So what is he?

Also curious if he was bred in the future to a Harlequin Magpie what the end result might be?
Any thoughts?
Am I correct that if he was bred to a Tri-Color (rather than the Japanese Harlequin) there could be Tri-Color, Harlequin, & Charlies?

Our focus is temperament and pet quality however there is a big market in our area for 4 - H rabbits too so I'm curious long term if I should keep this buck and doe as a pair
OR if I should breed him instead/also to a vibrant Tri-Color
OR breed the Japanese Harlequin to a more colorful Tri-Color instead of him?

Sorry if this is too wordy... I hope I have made sense! I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on what he would be called coloring wise and what you would breed in my scenario in the future.

Thank you a bundle!!

 

[Dood]

True charlies have two broken genes and can only produce brokens or charlies if bred to another broken so Thomas is a high white broken AKA false charlie

Tri colours are basically broken harlequins so yes, breeding him to a tri would statistically produce 25% charlies

I would call him a tri colour that has practically no rufus factors and is more of a creamy orange instead of a nice red. If you got magpies then both parents must carry recessives on their C-locus, but I would double check to see if they are really chinchilla or shaded magpies and not just really light cream harlequins.

If he is a tri and does carry a recessive on his C-locus then breeding to a magpie (which is a chinchilla or sable harlequin) you should get all 4 colours - tri, broken magpie, harli and magpie.

I would recommend breeding to a tri or harli with a really rich red to try get more rufus factors into the kits and very distinct banding in their haril and tri offspring

 

[Prisma]

What Dood said. Tri colors that are true charlies rarely have more than a few spots of color on their nose, ears, and backs. He has way more than 10% color imo, so he's not a charlie. I was told that tri colors with more flatten color like him are or at least more likely to be self based tri instead of agouti. However, I'm not sure on that one. I've been using both selfs and agoutis for years, usually not able to tell the difference in the orange/fawns of the tri colors in the end.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Dood,
Thanks so much!! Hopefully someday I'll be able to give such an intelligent sounding answer! The more I read the more I see how little I know! I had to look up
"rufus factor" and "Locus". ha. Thanks for helping me learn more and answering my questions so well! Greatly appreciated! <br /><br /> __________ Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:29 am __________ <br /><br />

What Dood said. Tri colors that are true charlies rarely have more than a few spots of color on their nose, ears, and backs. He has way more than 10% color imo, so he's not a charlie. I was told that tri colors with more flatten color like him are or at least more likely to be self based tri instead of agouti. However, I'm not sure on that one. I've been using both selfs and agoutis for years, usually not able to tell the difference in the orange/fawns of the tri colors in the end.

Thank you also Rebel Rose for your response! I appreciate it! I also enjoyed checking out your website.

 

[Prisma]

Its still in pieces but thank you. I need to get every one up; I have chocolate tri colors mainly. I keep tris in Hollands, Mini Rex, and Rex. They need lots more people to work and bring them up to par of torts/blacks at shows; Rex I'm just starting in so I have no idea how they compare to others.