What am I misunderstanding here? Updated with a picture :)

[dltc96]

We bred a solid black Rex (formerly unproven buck) to a broken black New Zealand (very proven doe who was the only one that would accept his affections). We got a lot of agouti (and broken agouti) colored kits. I did not think that could happen with the self gene (black) being recessive. Since they are both self black, shouldn't we be getting only black (and broken) kits? What am I missing here? Can you have a solid black rabbit that carries the "A" gene?

The buck would make the most sense to pass on the coloring because he has a lot of castor in his background, but we assumed he was a self because he has solid black fur to the slate grey under coat.

Genetics are still very confusing to us. :?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Dood]

Not all black rabbits are self.

Chesnut agouti with two steel genes often look black.
Agouti with a steel and a Japanese harlequin look black.
Very dark sables can look black.

And I am sure there are a few I have missed

I do not know how common the steel gene is in Rex so cannot say if that is the culprit in your case. If it is the Japanese harlequin then the kits will develop darker and lighter areas of castor once they fur up in a week. Here is an idea of what to look for at the bottom of the thread - how-to-breed-for-magpie-t14462.html

 

[skysthelimit]

Steel is extremely uncommon in Rex but not NZ... Sables in Rex would not look black, Seals would, but they have brown undercoats. Self chin would fit the puzzle piece as well. Someone is definitely not a black.

 

[dltc96]

Thanks for the help.

His pedigree contains: Black, Brk Black, Castor, Brk Choc, Chin, and Choc. He is black (maybe?).
Her's contains: Brk Blue, White, Blue, Brk Black, and Red. She is Brk Black and has had black, white, blue, and broken kits.

This pairing was just to prove the buck, but is sure making for some interesting learning on genetics. At this point I think we'll just have to wait and see where the color came from. We also bred him to another black Rex doe; she is due in about a week. If there is agouti in the nest box, we'll know it is him (she has only thrown selfs).<br /><br />__________ Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:38 pm __________<br /><br />Here is a picture of one of the question marks.

 

[ladysown]

that might be opal and not castor..or it could just be the light in the pic is off.

 

[skysthelimit]

Looks like castor to me. This is the age where a rex looks like chestnuts in most breeds. Opals in Rex look decisively blue, and generally show no ticking at this age. With chin in the pedigree you probably have a self chin. What color are the bucks eyes?

 

[Dood]

Self chin would fit the puzzle piece as well

a SELF chin would not produce agouti, they are simply self rabbits who carry the chinchilla gen, not the agouti gene.

Sables in Rex would not look black, Seals would, but they have brown undercoats

would this be true for agouti sables or just self sables?

that might be opal and not castor

two self blacks should not be able to produce an Opal either since it is blue/dilute agouti.

Is there a possibility she was bred by another buck?

 

[GypsyTinker]

Pics of the parents please

 

[skysthelimit]

As far as is known, there are no agouti sables in Rex,they are bred from self lines. It's very rare to even have Seal, Sable or Himi Rex, I am one of four people who breed them and mine are shipped from across the country. The chance of getting an agouti sable is less than getting a black chin.

 

[dltc96]

The buck's eyes are brown (as are the doe's). I'll get pics up this evening (I'll try to get pics of the parents' undercoats too).
The kits are 4 days old today. The color looks a little more silvery in the picture than in person.

__________ Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 am __________

The thing is, if this color is coming from him (which I suspect), I'm really interested to see what comes from our black Rex doe. She's due in just over a week.
She and the buck have each won a leg.
I'm getting excited here!

 

[skysthelimit]

The problem is, if he's a steel, breeding the two together you may not be able to duplicate it.

 

[dltc96]

Sorry to not get the pictures up; the camera is not working. I did verify eye color (brown) and double checked undercoat (slate grey).
We'll see what happens.
Thanks for the input.

 

[skysthelimit]

Can't wait for the update. If it is steel, I would suspect the NZ before the Rex.