What’s your opinion?

[Lewis]

I’m hoping to get opinions on this from other breeders. I am giving broad stokes-

I found a breeder with no Vienna in her lines. I’ve been searching for a while for a non Vienna baby English angora (wanted to use the first wool and this would be my first true baby) for potentially showing . She told me she has healthy English Angoras and focuses on quality wool. She does not show but knows enough to know who are breeder/show rabbits vs pet rabbits. And the transporter I’d be utilizing through her l, shows rabbits and if I have any specific show questions that he would be happy to help me. When I confirmed on purchasing the English angora baby (chocolate tort) the breeder told me of an owner surrender she is getting in and if my sister would be interested (breeder knew my sister has no English angora experience and just got her first rabbit ). The bunny was being surrendered because the owner’s cat did not like the rabbit and the owner felt it was an unsafe environment. She explained that she’d be taking this surrender back to her farm to care for him and the surrender rabbit could potentially (if room in transport) could leave the same time transport picked my bunny up (in a week). This was through text and written out clearly.

The owner surrender is a little bit older than 5 months old. After confirming with my sister I got back in touch with breeder (same day) and I said yes she’ll take him. The breeder then changed it to I need to coordinate transport as she has no time to take this rabbit back at all.

I spoke to the breeder again and said that transport is able to pick up the surrendered rabbit and that owner really just seems to not want the rabbit (to me) vs the cat wanting to eat the rabbit. She responded that she can tell the owner was not brushing the rabbit correctly and would probably need his feet wool trimmed. The transport could also pick this surrendered bunny up before stopping at her stop to pick mine and her other baby bunnies who were taking the transport. I found this stop information through her and she told me she’ll give the surrendered bunny a once over and included his paper work and food(did not do this but no big deal) that she was including with mine.

We receive both rabbits (road side by side in transport) and the surrendered bunny is completely matted (to the skin) other than the face top of the head and ears. The rabbit could NOT move to clean himself or fully hop, fully move any of his legs and neck. Every inch of this rabbit had mites (other than the ears top of the head and face). I’ve never seen anything like this. He was more mites than wool and body mass. The more wool we cut away we’d fine more prolific mites. His testicles reseeded into his body. It took over 4 hours to cut away the matts as a shaver could not penetrate any of it (brand new blade). The rabbit is still not finished. When we touched the rabbit we would be covered in the mites as well. The 11 week old English angora bunny is larger than this almost 6 month old English angora and all his bones stick out.

I contacted the breeder and told her and she said she never looked at the surrender rabbit as she was focused on her current babies she was sending off with transport and did not want to hold up transport (they are friends). She tried to insist this was not wool mites but dandruff. And when I insisted it was absolutely not dandruff she told me it was not a big deal and to shave both rabbits as they now both have it. She said angoras are always battling wool mites. My baby bunny definitely had some throughout his wool(nothing terrible). She kept saying the surrendered rabbits condition is no big deal and we need to shave both bunnies as the baby one was exposed to the surrendered bunny. In the course of speaking with her I explained the importance of wanting to potentially show the English angora baby and use his first wool for spinning (why I was looking for a baby).


The surrendered rabbit would have died in a week with how infested he was and his current body condition(no muscle just skin and bones)I’ve never seen anything like it. He was like a snow machine- Every time we touched or held him our hands and clothes were covered in mites. The brush the owner gave was a small wide tooth comb so I’m going with this rabbit has never been brushed either. The condition of this rabbit was appalling. I am so grateful we were able to relieve this rabbits suffering and he is going to have a happy life.

The breeder kept saying the condition of this surrendered rabbit is not a big deal and wanted to hear about the 11 week old rabbit. Is this a normal response of the breeder? Am I expecting too much?

 

[hotzcatz]

Of course, all of this is just my opinion, I'm not a vet and don't even play one on TV, but my advice would be to get some Ivermectin - they sell it as a horse wormer at the feed store, an apple flavored gel. Put a dab of it behind the ears on both your bunnies. That'll clear up the wool mites with one application. Keep the remaining horse wormer in the 'fridge, you'll need it again at some point, angoras always seem to get wool mites from somewhere.

Feed the emaciated rabbit as much as it wants to eat until it's gained back the weight. The angoras here get a high protein rabbit pellet as the base of their diet. When they need to gain weight, dry oatmeal is added in or dry COB (Corn, Oats, Barley) as well as some BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) and a bit of calf manna, too. It's mostly pellets with a sprinkling of the other, although you can go heavy on the oatmeal if you like. Along with mulberry leaves and ti leaf or whatever bunny safe leaves and foliage you have available. Think dry coarse sorts of leaves, not tender wet lettuce. Carrot tops are better than carrot roots.

I got a rabbit back once that had six to eight inch long dreadlocks, I was surprised it had survived since it couldn't really move. Scissors - small embroidery snips - is what worked to get all that mess off the rabbit.

 

[Lewis]

Of course, all of this is just my opinion, I'm not a vet and don't even play one on TV, but my advice would be to get some Ivermectin - they sell it as a horse wormer at the feed store, an apple flavored gel. Put a dab of it behind the ears on both your bunnies. That'll clear up the wool mites with one application. Keep the remaining horse wormer in the 'fridge, you'll need it again at some point, angoras always seem to get wool mites from somewhere.

Feed the emaciated rabbit as much as it wants to eat until it's gained back the weight. The angoras here get a high protein rabbit pellet as the base of their diet. When they need to gain weight, dry oatmeal is added in or dry COB (Corn, Oats, Barley) as well as some BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) and a bit of calf manna, too. It's mostly pellets with a sprinkling of the other, although you can go heavy on the oatmeal if you like. Along with mulberry leaves and ti leaf or whatever bunny safe leaves and foliage you have available. Think dry coarse sorts of leaves, not tender wet lettuce. Carrot tops are better than carrot roots.

I got a rabbit back once that had six to eight inch long dreadlocks, I was surprised it had survived since it couldn't really move. Scissors - small embroidery snips - is what worked to get all that mess off the rabbit.

We treated the rabbit as soon as we got him. I was aware of the treatment thankfully and knew what we were looking at (confirm with a microscope). He is doing much better and literally hasn’t stopped eating and cleaning himself. He is definitely on the road to recovery.

I am just a little unsettled by the breeder’s cavalier attitude to the condition of the rabbit and insistence it was dandruff. But maybe I’m expecting too much. Had this been one of my rabbits I’d be extremely upset over his condition.

 

[Sagebrush]

Well thank you for taking this poor bun in and giving him the care that he deserves! I have not and do not plan on breeding angora rabbits as they wouldn't do well here in my area. It is far to humid and hot here for them to be any kind of comfortable. However, what Hotzcatz has said is fantastic. The only thing I would do different is I personally would not use the gel form of ivermectin. I prefer to use the injectable form of Ivermectin as it gives me better control of how much the rabbit is actually getting.

 

[Mckatie]

We treated the rabbit as soon as we got him. I was aware of the treatment thankfully and knew what we were looking at (confirm with a microscope). He is doing much better and literally hasn’t stopped eating and cleaning himself. He is definitely on the road to recovery.

I am just a little unsettled by the breeder’s cavalier attitude to the condition of the rabbit and insistence it was dandruff. But maybe I’m expecting too much. Had this been one of my rabbits I’d be extremely upset over his condition.

I wouldn't want to do business with her again. She obviously was passing the "issue" on; probably to help her friend. How can someone be too busy to do the right thing? And if you cannot do what you say you are going to do; how good is your word? She had nothing to gain by taking the bunny. If it was one of hers previously, she was already paid. For some people it is always about the bottom line - and what value said object brings to the table.

I've been accused of being too black and white on my boundaries. I'm going to stand by my choices because if your word is not good, I don't want you in my circle. If you are too busy to do the right thing, again, I don't need you nor want you in my circle.

I'm glad this bunny came to you . Your heart is big.

 

[Lewis]

Well thank you for taking this poor bun in and giving him the care that he deserves! I have not and do not plan on breeding angora rabbits as they wouldn't do well here in my area. It is far too humid and hot here for them to be any kind of comfortable. However, what Hotzcatz has said is fantastic. The only thing I would do different is I personally would not use the gel form of ivermectin. I prefer to use the injectable form of Ivermectin as it gives me better control of how much the rabbit is actually

Well thank you for taking this poor bun in and giving him the care that he deserves! I have not and do not plan on breeding angora rabbits as they wouldn't do well here in my area. It is far to humid and hot here for them to be any kind of comfortable. However, what Hotzcatz has said is fantastic. The only thing I would do different is I personally would not use the gel form of ivermectin. I prefer to use the injectable form of Ivermectin as it gives me better control of how much the rabbit is actually getting.

He is definitely being taken care of. I’ve dealt with wool mites before - nowhere near to this extent though. I did just find out that wool and fur mites are the same thing so all the bunnies on that transport (all our animals and us) were exposed. I am more looking to see if the breeder we got the bunnies from had a normal reaction ? If this makes sense’s

I wouldn't want to do business with her again. She obviously was passing the "issue" on; probably to help her friend. How can someone be too busy to do the right thing? And if you cannot do what you say you are going to do; how good is your word? She had nothing to gain by taking the bunny. If it was one of hers previously, she was already paid. For some people it is always about the bottom line - and what value said object brings to the table.

I've been accused of being too black and white on my boundaries. I'm going to stand by my choices because if your word is not good, I don't want you in my circle. If you are too busy to do the right thing, again, I don't need you nor want you in my circle.

I'm glad this bunny came to you . Your heart is big.

this is how I am feeling but was not sure if I was being over the top. The bunny I bought from her is not like the photos but I am more upset over the mite infested bunny as I am getting the feeling she knew. I wasn’t sure if this was common practice or not.

 

[Sagebrush]

@Lewis As a breeder, I am appalled at her behavior. A person is only as good as their word, and it seems that in this case her word is worth nothing. I would not do any business with her again. With any animal I have ever produced and sold I tell the buyer that at any point in that animals life, if they can or wont take care if it, I will take it back no questions asked. As a result I have only ever had to take back 2 rabbits. No fault of the animal or the families that got them, life happens.

 

[ladysown]

I'm not delighted with that breeder's reaction and the insistance that was just dandruff. it's like... if it's moving, it's NOT dandruff! Like trust the person you are talking too who was dealing with the rabbit. Good on hopefully NOT shaving him as ivermectin should do the trick in killing the mites. Good on you taking him on and getting the rescue into a better state of life. I'd be hesitant to do business with the breeder again.

 

[Lewis]

@Lewis As a breeder, I am appalled at her behavior. A person is only as good as their word, and it seems that in this case her word is worth nothing. I would not do any business with her again. With any animal I have ever produced and sold I tell the buyer that at any point in that animals life, if they can or wont take care if it, I will take it back no questions asked. As a result I have only ever had to take back 2 rabbits. No fault of the animal or the families that got them, life happens.

I'm not delighted with that breeder's reaction and the insistance that was just dandruff. it's like... if it's moving, it's NOT dandruff! Like trust the person you are talking too who was dealing with the rabbit. Good on hopefully NOT shaving him as ivermectin should do the trick in killing the mites. Good on you taking him on and getting the rescue into a better state of life. I'd be hesitant to do business with the breeder again.

Thank you both for your thoughts. This is what I am leaning towards (it’s really hard to find a breeder without VM genes ) but was not sure if I was over reacting. I’ll have to look elsewhere.

Both rabbits are doing really well. They unfortunately both got clipped, one as close to the skin as he was matted to the skin and the other just got a clip (it hurt doing this). I wish I didn’t not clip the baby as he didn’t have any matting nor did he too many mites … it was just in the middle and dispersed.