Was given a mess

[lozinit]

A couple of months ago I purchased a trio of New Zealands. A week later the guy I bought the trio from called and said he would give me all his rabbits (1 new Zealand, 2 Rex, 2 California, the rest are mixed breeds) and all the cages, watering system, feeders. Great, I thought. We loaded all the cages with rabbits in them into my trailer using his forklift. When I got home and started to offload the rabbits I realized just how bad off they were. Ear mites on every rabbit. Eye crusted over on the flemish. Two had teeth that were grown into their jaws and unable to really eat.

All the ears on every rabbit were treated with olive oil. Teeth were trimmed and monitored for infection. Claws were trimmed. Unfortunately the flemish passed away. The other 21 rabbits are doing good for over a month now with no issues. They are on 16% protein pellets at 1/4 cup per 4 lbs of weight in evenings. Morning they get 70/30 Alfalfa & Orchard hay.

Tried to breed them this month. The buck I bought tries but the does will not lift for him. Tried does with the two other bucks and got the two females I bought and they did what they needed to do. Tried the other does and none will raise. They just put their heads in a corner and stay put. Tried apple cider vinegar, tried a car ride. Still nothing. I am unsure of ages but all the does have dew laps and are 5+ lbs. I believe some are about 6 months of age and some might be a few years old, with rest somewhere between those ages.

This next week the rabbits I know that are older with very visible cataracts will be going to the freezer along with an extremely aggressive doe. She attacked all 3 bucks, and attacks me whenever I open the cage to put hay inside. I am hesitant to send the others as they might just be to young still or I am doing something wrong, so will wait a month or two more and keep trying. Any advice or am I missing anything?

Attached are some pictures of the rabbits.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

You didn't look at or check out the rabbits before you bought/got them?

 

[tambayo]

Shorter days can make does not want to breed, they may still be recovering or now fat. Try again mid february. Do you have any data at all on these animals? Cage cards, other papers? Or was it just i have to get rid of all my rabbits, here you go and bye?

 

[Alaska Satin]

A couple of months ago I purchased a trio of New Zealands. A week later the guy I bought the trio from called and said he would give me all his rabbits (1 new Zealand, 2 Rex, 2 California, the rest are mixed breeds) and all the cages, watering system, feeders. Great, I thought. We loaded all the cages with rabbits in them into my trailer using his forklift. When I got home and started to offload the rabbits I realized just how bad off they were. Ear mites on every rabbit. Eye crusted over on the flemish. Two had teeth that were grown into their jaws and unable to really eat.

All the ears on every rabbit were treated with olive oil. Teeth were trimmed and monitored for infection. Claws were trimmed. Unfortunately the flemish passed away. The other 21 rabbits are doing good for over a month now with no issues. They are on 16% protein pellets at 1/4 cup per 4 lbs of weight in evenings. Morning they get 70/30 Alfalfa & Orchard hay.

Tried to breed them this month. The buck I bought tries but the does will not lift for him. Tried does with the two other bucks and got the two females I bought and they did what they needed to do. Tried the other does and none will raise. They just put their heads in a corner and stay put. Tried apple cider vinegar, tried a car ride. Still nothing. I am unsure of ages but all the does have dew laps and are 5+ lbs. I believe some are about 6 months of age and some might be a few years old, with rest somewhere between those ages.

This next week the rabbits I know that are older with very visible cataracts will be going to the freezer along with an extremely aggressive doe. She attacked all 3 bucks, and attacks me whenever I open the cage to put hay inside. I am hesitant to send the others as they might just be to young still or I am doing something wrong, so will wait a month or two more and keep trying. Any advice or am I missing anything?

Attached are some pictures of the rabbits.

Nice job on recognizing their distress and rehabilitating the rabbits that could be rehabilitated. What a blessing for them that you took them while they could still be helped!

If the well-conditioned does you bought were willing to breed, but the "rescued" ones are not, the new does may still need to build up their reserves before they're ready to breed. If it's only been a month, they may just be finishing up healing. Since they were so run-down and parasite-infested, they may still be harboring some problems that are not apparent; if it was me, I'd give all of them a single dose of Safeguard (fenbendazole). Occasionally, I have used this when I have a rabbit that just can't seem to prime - not sick, but not energetic, coat not perfect, not interested in breeding. Usually it looks almost miraculous, totally turning them around within a week or two. I generally avoid meds, but once in a while they have a place, and fenbendazole is one with a very good safety profile.

Of course you don't want to get them fat, but you might also give the does a tiny bit of BOSS or Calf Manna for a while, to continue to help build them up. The other thing that can help put rabbits in the mood is fresh greens. Keeping track of their weight can tell you a lot about their condition over time, too.

I think you're wise to hold off on butchering for another month or two. Southern California shouldn't really have too much winter breeding depression, and by next month they may feel better all-around, from a combination of more healing time, more daylight, and more months on the ground, for the younger ones. Up here, our rabbits can sense the increase in daylight after the solstice, and by mid-January, even though the days are still quite short, my does are raring to go. (And February litters are always some of my most successful.)

 

[lozinit]

Thank you both for replies and advice. Unfortunately he kept no records of any kind. Seems he just put rabbits together for a day or two then moved the buck to the next doe.

I will be getting the fenbendazole today. I did a search and looks like 20mg per kg of weight is the recommended dose. Or what would you recommend?

I will wait and give them more time to recover. Sadly this is not what we wanted or were planning. The wife's and my goal was to raise our food so we know what went into it and that they were well taken care of. If they need medication to get healthy we will go that route. At this point we have decided it would be best to breed these and keep records of their offspring going forward, sort of starting with a clean slate. I have been keeping a record of the rabbits we have since we got them but a lot of information is unknown. Thank you for the advice.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Thank you both for replies and advice. Unfortunately he kept no records of any kind. Seems he just put rabbits together for a day or two then moved the buck to the next doe.

I will be getting the fenbendazole today. I did a search and looks like 20mg per kg of weight is the recommended dose. Or what would you recommend?

I will wait and give them more time to recover. Sadly this is not what we wanted or were planning. The wife's and my goal was to raise our food so we know what went into it and that they were well taken care of. If they need medication to get healthy we will go that route. At this point we have decided it would be best to breed these and keep records of their offspring going forward, sort of starting with a clean slate. I have been keeping a record of the rabbits we have since we got them but a lot of information is unknown. Thank you for the advice.

I don't actually use fenbendazole according to the typical dosing recommendation, which is often used to treat E. cuniculi. Like I said, I only administer it once, rather than repeatedly. For my purposes, a small bead of the paste - approximately 1/4" in diameter - does the trick for adult Satins, which weigh roughly 8-10lbs, sometimes a bit more. I'm not super precise about the dosage as it has a very wide safety range. It is a bit strange (for me at least) to be medicating for an unknown assailant, and if I had the time/money/access, it would be interesting to do an assay to see if I could find out which parasite(s) the rabbit was carrying. But I do not, and in any case, whatever the problem is, it is solved by this approach more often than not. Since fenbendazole has pretty broad-spectrum action, there may a number of different issues it has solved.

I'm with you on raising meat in a responsible, humane way, which is why I rarely resort to pharmaceuticals. The two drugs I keep on hand, and use very rarely, are ivermectin and fenbendazole. I use them only as a last resort when no "natural" methods will work (e.g. ivermectin for fur mites that DE or oil don't clear up). And while I've satisfied myself that these two meds are extremely low-risk for both rabbits and humans (in fact there is some evidence that each of these drugs may have a role in caner prevention/treatment), I do not give them to meat growouts at all. They are reserved for breeding stock that have a problem I can't address any other way. I also generally do not use them as a solution more than once for the same animal; if it doesn't turn the animal around, I generally cull, since I really do not want high-maintenance stock. However, if a rabbit comes home from a show or fair with parasites, it doesn't seem reasonable to cull in that case (unless the problem keeps recurring).

You could also just wait another month, to give your rabbits time to fully recover and discover the returning daylight, before resorting to the fenbendazole. By mid-to-late January, any does that continue to be reluctant to breed could be dosed then, as it only takes a week or two to see the improvement if it's going to help.

Here's one of the good sources of information I've found on fenbendazole, including information on side effects in humans (so far only found under regimens involving huge amounts over an extended time period) and a list of references:
https://alternativemedicine.com/cancer/facts-you-might-not-have-known-about-fenbendazole/

 

[lozinit]

Update:

There have been drastic improvements in the health and well being. I treated all the rabbits then I tried mating them and what a night and day difference in the 6 does. 5 lifted right away and had 2 fall offs when I left them alone to catch a chicken. I have added nest boxes on day 28 with cardboard in the bottom and pine shavings with hay on top.

Last night 3 does gave birth. First California doe had all 9 on the wire and none survived and were found frozen when I found them at 6am. She did not pull fur or attempt to build a nest, emptied everything out. The second California doe had 2 kits in the box with pulled fur. The third, a new zealand, which I did not know was pregnant as there was no fall off when mated gave birth to 8 kits. 1 was dead but the other 7 are plump and all in the nest box. This next part has me confused as she is staying in the nest box with the kits. She eats, drinks, and goes right back. Might be that it is cold here in Southern California right now.

I am hopeing that the first California will do better next time since I assume that this is her first litter.

Tomorrow 3 more does should give birth. 2 were pulling fur when I gave them their evening feed earlier.

As for the rabbits that had cataracts they were dispatched humanely. I found a great use for their fur. My neighbor watched me skin the rabbits and asked for the fur. She tanned and made their fur into gloves for the veterans program that they do at an Elks Lodge. They take homeless veterans and get them housing, use the GI bill to learn a trade, and anything else they need to get back to being back in society. Heads were fed to dogs, stomachs went to compost. I dehydrated ears and tails for dog treats. Liver, heart, and kidneys went to chickens. Meat went to freezer after 3 day rest. I will be culling the bucks and the mean doe on Tuesday I hope.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[TamiPac]

I don't actually use fenbendazole according to the typical dosing recommendation, which is often used to treat E. cuniculi. Like I said, I only administer it once, rather than repeatedly. For my purposes, a small bead of the paste - approximately 1/4" in diameter - does the trick for adult Satins, which weigh roughly 8-10lbs, sometimes a bit more. I'm not super precise about the dosage as it has a very wide safety range. It is a bit strange (for me at least) to be medicating for an unknown assailant, and if I had the time/money/access, it would be interesting to do an assay to see if I could find out which parasite(s) the rabbit was carrying. But I do not, and in any case, whatever the problem is, it is solved by this approach more often than not. Since fenbendazole has pretty broad-spectrum action, there may a number of different issues it has solved.

I'm with you on raising meat in a responsible, humane way, which is why I rarely resort to pharmaceuticals. The two drugs I keep on hand, and use very rarely, are ivermectin and fenbendazole. I use them only as a last resort when no "natural" methods will work (e.g. ivermectin for fur mites that DE or oil don't clear up). And while I've satisfied myself that these two meds are extremely low-risk for both rabbits and humans (in fact there is some evidence that each of these drugs may have a role in caner prevention/treatment), I do not give them to meat growouts at all. They are reserved for breeding stock that have a problem I can't address any other way. I also generally do not use them as a solution more than once for the same animal; if it doesn't turn the animal around, I generally cull, since I really do not want high-maintenance stock. However, if a rabbit comes home from a show or fair with parasites, it doesn't seem reasonable to cull in that case (unless the problem keeps recurring).

You could also just wait another month, to give your rabbits time to fully recover and discover the returning daylight, before resorting to the fenbendazole. By mid-to-late January, any does that continue to be reluctant to breed could be dosed then, as it only takes a week or two to see the improvement if it's going to help.

Here's one of the good sources of information I've found on fenbendazole, including information on side effects in humans (so far only found under regimens involving huge amounts over an extended time period) and a list of references:
https://alternativemedicine.com/cancer/facts-you-might-not-have-known-about-fenbendazole/

Thank you for the valuable information!