waht colors could I expect?

[yanni]

What colors could I expect to see from this cross:
red mini rex buck to a REW mini rex doe out of sable point who has thrown tri babies when bred to a tri?

 

[caroline]

sable point aaB_chl_D_ee

red A_ __ C_ D_ ee

REW _a __ cc __ _e

you have too many unknowns to be able to predict

the only think that seems likely is that they will all carry non-extension

knowing what that sable point doe was bred to might fill in some of the blanks,

this site is good if you have the basic genotypes of the parents to get some predictions

http://www.welshrabbitry.com/matrix.php

 

[yanni]

The red is out of all reds, and the REW is out of sable point with some seal in the background.
Does that help you guys at all?
Is chocolate tort a possibility? :?
Sorry for being a ding-y blond <br /><br />__________ Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:46 pm __________<br /><br />

 

[caroline]

tort is definitely a possibility since sable point and seal are self[aa]and so is tort. Totrt, or tortoise shell, is what whatyou get when the red is self, not agouti.
the only way you could get CHOCOLATE tort is if BOTH the red and the REW carried "b" chocolate.It's possible for red to BE "bb" but it could also be BB and then you'd NEVER get chocolate anything out of this red buck.

 

[akane]

A rew who has thrown tri is ej not just e or E so you will get tris. Torts you may or may not get because a rabbit does not have to carry nonextension to throw tris. It could be Eej with the other rabbit contributing e or ej and then you can only get regular color ( chestnut, black, etc..) or tri without red or tort from that rabbit. Since the other side is all reds all the way back odds are little else is carried and the genetics on that rabbit are AABBDDCCee making it so you will probably only get chestnuts and harlequin/black jap. Of course something odd could always pop up from a recessive gene that has been hiding for many generations and you could get torts and reds if the rew is hiding eje instead of Eej. Chestnut and harlequin are the only guarantees though.

 

[yanni]

Thanks for the replies!
I double checked the pedigrees. The red buck is all reds. The REW doe has chocolate otter, tort and red at the great, great level. If the babies come out as reds, when would I know? Would they have the red markings (red with cream eye rings, belly, chin, inner ear, etc) by the time they have fur (like 2 weeks)? Or does that not show up till later?
Thank you all for trying to educate.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Reds show as pinkish at birth but very very quickly get the red hue showing.. if you get rews and reds together you would notice right away almost!

 

[caroline]

So I'm looking back & the rabbit that you are breeding is OUT of "a sable point who has thrown tris" the rabbit in question has not thrown tris. That doesn't necessarily mean that the mother carried ej. As a matter of fact, since the mother was sable point, she must have been ee, not eje, or she would have been harli, or magpie or something besides sable point. No?
What I'm guessing is that the buck this sable point does was bred to was the one who carried the ej. I'm also assuming that this buck was NOT the father of the doe in question. I also imagine that this buck, the father of the reported tris, was also broken, since you HAVE to have the En gene in there for the tri to appear. you can't breed two solid animals together and get tris, no matter how many ej genes there are. You'll just get those harli/magpies without the En gene.
So back to our REW doe in question. She seems to have a mother who was "ee" [sable point] and we have not been told what the father was, only that she was out of this sable point doe with "seal in the back ground" what was her sire? that should give more information so you can fill in the possible genes that she could be hiding around her "cc"

 

[akane]

I misread the op. If the dam has only thrown tris and is sable point then yes she would be ee and all the tri genetics were from the buck she was bred to. She would have passed on e making ee rabbits from a red possible. However the heavy red background makes it unlikely irregardless of the sire of the rew that any torts would be produced. There would be no a-self on the red side. It just changes the odds to reds and if the sire threw in an E chestnuts. The red side is still most likely AABBDDCCee making nothing but A*B*D*C* likely in the offspring so it will show all dominant genes except the e locus which could be ee, Ee or even still eje which would give you harlequins (tri requires more genes) if the sire of the rew doe carried it. Torts would require the red side to carry self making the buck Aa instead but there is no sign of that so possible but low odds. Heck anything is possible, my blue out of blues just threw himis and my blue out of blacks threw a chocolate, but you can only go by the odds of what's on the pedigree until you try it.

 

[yanni]

Thanks you guys for trying to explain it to me! The e, E, ej part is the confusing part for me. I guess I was hoping for an easy explanation and that you guys would say "you'll just get reds" . The buck is pretty easy being out of all reds. It's the doe that is making it weird Males are always so much easier to figure out (of any species). The doe's mom was the seal, the dad was the sable point. The grandparents were sable point, sable point, chocolate otter and sable. the great grandparents were: sable point and sable, sable point and tort, chocolate otter and red, and sable point and sable. The doe in question is the REW doe and has thrown REW and tri when bred to a tri and those are the only colors she throws.
Clear as mud?

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Red to sable point will also get you frosty's which is red with the chin gene. Chin suppresses red/tan.

 

[akane]

Only if the red has a recessive c locus gene. Otherwise every rabbit will be Cc(chl) and will look like a regular red instead of light chin that turns out frosty. Although some people have been wondering if the chin and light chin genes might be effecting the red shading on some rabbits despite carrying full color.

You've got a ton of genes from the doe but the buck does not have much of a background so you probably will only get reds. We're just mentioning other possibilities if your buck does have a gene hiding that came from a rabbit off the pedigree who wasn't red. Some of these things can hide for a long time and show up 10 or so generations later.

 

[yanni]

Thanks for all the info! Wow, 10 generations back! I'd like to get reds , so it's neat that I just might Would red babies have the same markings as the buck very early on? Like the light eye circle, inner ears, etc.? I've had REWs born and they looked pink. I've had harlis born and they looked more orange than pink as newborns. Do you think they would be smutty (because of the doe's background)? Anyway, I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[akane]

If the doe doesn't have red or a color that uses a lot of red in her background you may lose some rufus modifiers which are what make the red really bright and help make the unique castor rex instead of the typical chestnut agouti color you get with the same gene set on another breed. They'll come out a little duller/browner than your buck in that case and they may have more shading up the sides instead of even color. You also tend to lose the solid belly. Ideal reds have red bellies (don't ask me why someone thought they needed this but every breed tries for it) but technically the genetics for a red is agouti which has a white, cream, or similar belly so you can start getting reds with light bellies again when you cross out. That's why red is usually bred only to red unless you are using the red to improve another color. Reds from crosses with nonreds tend to not be as close to show quality.

Really the whole rex/mini rex agouti group is a real pain in the *** to deal with if you want to make show quality and aren't starting with a group of good quality same colored rabbits. The self colors are much easier to produce the proper shade with less unaccepted colors produced as a side effect. It's common to have agouti colors with pedigrees like your rex where nearly every rabbits is the same color except maybe a black or another agouti thrown in to alter the shade a little or improve the coat while self colors like the sable point doe commonly have mixed backgrounds because mixing the colors doesn't have the same effect as mixing agoutis.