Vorpal rabbit

[Robochelle]

I got lunged at, and bitten hard when I opened a doe's cage today. Significant wound, but probably won't need stitches. She wouldn't let go!

She is going to be culled, I have enough friendly does and I don't want aggression in my lines. But, before I put her in the freezer, I want to ensure that this isn't behavior triggered by an illness that could mean we shouldn't eat the meat.

Context: 2 days ago, I took her out of her cage to breed with a male. She attacked the male, so I pulled her out and put her back in her cage. Unfortunately, she was sharing it with another doe. Poor doe was attacked. I separated them, and kept her alone. Yesterday I tried to reintroduce her roommate, and she chased. The roomie is staying with some friendly males, now.

This generation, I've been periodically changing roomies so that they are conditioned to accept any of their siblings or the next generation with little fuss, and she has had at least 3 switches without incident before. She was also bred twice before, but didn't conceive. Both times she was introduced, she stayed in the new cage for about a week. This is not her first time with that male, but there was another doe in with him who she has roomed with before without incident. She is 10 months old.

Just now, I opened her cage door to feed her, and she lunged a good foot and a half, to latch onto my palm. Wouldn't let go, either. According to the Internet, when she bites and doesn't let go, she's probably defending her territory.


My hypothesis is that she didn't want to be bred, and then became territorial because of the encounter. Even after 2 days alone, she's holding a grudge. Does anyone have any other insight I should consider?

 

[Cindy in SD]

I don’t know… just my instinct, but if it were me, I would bury or otherwise discard the corpse. I’m pretty adventurous, but I don’t think I’d eat that rabbit.

 

[Robochelle]

Thanks for the caution, Cindy.

Having butchered, nothing was really out of place, other than the fact that she had far more fat than normal.

 

[Preitler]

I would say, good appetite. There isn't much that would render rabbit meat unsuitable for human consumption, and you cook it anyway.

Seems she was overly hormonal, which can be a sign for a health issue (like, one of my does went crazy and completly exhausted herself building tunnels, my assumption is that the ovary cyst the vet saw on ultrasound messed with her hormones), but nothing that affects the meat.

Never seen the word vorpal before, had to look it up , one learns something new every day...

 

[ladysown]

Honestly... I'd breed her (if previously her personality has been good)! at 10 months she might MENTALLY be old enough to breed now and exposure to the buck..... might have kicked those hormones into overdrive for breeding. If she doesn't take (please use a buck different than the one you just had her with), a particularly dominant buck might be a good idea.=, but if she doesn't take to him, then perhaps be thinking lunch.

 

[Scooter1A]

Hello, sorry you got bit, ouch. My take is she is like me and doesn't like roommates ha. She is gone now so enjoy her one last time on the table. Sounds like you looked at the liver and lungs and saw nothing wrong. People never believe me when I say don't stick your finger in that cage unless you want to lose it.

 

[tambayo]

Had one nippy doe, she didn't catch and on butchering was fat.
From what i understand, rabbits are territorial about their dens, rest less so. I do keep mothers with daughters untill i need daughters for the pot or rebreed mom, but that has more to do with room then anything else. I also know one doe will not allow that. She'll become agressive at about 8 weeks, just like her mom did with the litter. Her half sister didn't get that treatment, because i removed the doe just a few days before that time. I hope that means halfsister will be happy with sharing pen with daughters over 8 weeks old. I also find that keeping nestsisters together goes fine untill one had a visit with the buck ... different scent and unrest/trouble. I don't reintroduce rabbits together, they are alone some time and then live some months with their daughter(s) untill next breeding (about 4-6 months between due to my meat needs, working towards closed flock and other such preferences).

In the wild animals that live in groups often pair/group up along motherlines family bonds, so mother daughter groupings are natural fit.
Humans thinking that all animals of a species automatically should be happy together forget that such meetings are not "normal" as such, familiy groups are and make sense also when it comes to passing along genes to achieve immortality. So does introducing new males for fresh genetics, but for controled breeding that is a bit more problematic. It makes keeping animals together some times and apart some times tricky and stressfull for the animals. Change is not always a good thing even when there is a rythm to it.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

I had a Doe who was mean when in her cage but perfectly fine out of it, she'd nip but never latched on

 

[eco2pia]

I had a doe who did that. All of it. I have a permanent scar on my upper arm. I bred her. She was less vicious but she was still a grumpy witch. I gave her 3 litters. She never sweetened up, tho I managed to impress on her that going for my hand was not going to work by wearing protective denim sleeves and gloves. Even in summer.

She was delicious.

 

[Scooter1A]

I got lunged at, and bitten hard when I opened a doe's cage today. Significant wound, but probably won't need stitches. She wouldn't let go!

She is going to be culled, I have enough friendly does and I don't want aggression in my lines. But, before I put her in the freezer, I want to ensure that this isn't behavior triggered by an illness that could mean we shouldn't eat the meat.

Context: 2 days ago, I took her out of her cage to breed with a male. She attacked the male, so I pulled her out and put her back in her cage. Unfortunately, she was sharing it with another doe. Poor doe was attacked. I separated them, and kept her alone. Yesterday I tried to reintroduce her roommate, and she chased. The roomie is staying with some friendly males, now.

This generation, I've been periodically changing roomies so that they are conditioned to accept any of their siblings or the next generation with little fuss, and she has had at least 3 switches without incident before. She was also bred twice before, but didn't conceive. Both times she was introduced, she stayed in the new cage for about a week. This is not her first time with that male, but there was another doe in with him who she has roomed with before without incident. She is 10 months old.

Just now, I opened her cage door to feed her, and she lunged a good foot and a half, to latch onto my palm. Wouldn't let go, either. According to the Internet, when she bites and doesn't let go, she's probably defending her territory.


My hypothesis is that she didn't want to be bred, and then became territorial because of the encounter. Even after 2 days alone, she's holding a grudge. Does anyone have any other insight I should consider?

Might want to keep that bite wound covered for a while.

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

Well, I'm impressed that you can put does together. My does are all extremely territorial and if I tried to put two together it would be a cage fight. I could sell tickets lol. I tried putting them together in a 10x10 ft area and it was still a cage fight. I suppose if I left the daughters with the mothers they might be okay, but when I took one out and tried to reintroduce it even after only a couple hours the adult female is not receptive to the idea. She will jack all over their heads and chase them around. Eventually it calms down but they're much happier in their own space

 

[Robochelle]

Well, I'm impressed that you can put does together. My does are all extremely territorial and if I tried to put two together it would be a cage fight. I could sell tickets lol. I tried putting them together in a 10x10 ft area and it was still a cage fight. I suppose if I left the daughters with the mothers they might be okay, but when I took one out and tried to reintroduce it even after only a couple hours the adult female is not receptive to the idea. She will jack all over their heads and chase them around. Eventually it calms down but they're much happier in their own space

Any does of the generation above this one, that's exactly what happens. It's because I conditioned this generation and younger to have a revolving door of roomies that it works. I was lucky enough to have a couple mothers that accepted any baby that approached them. Then I traded out a few every couple days. I'm hoping to eventually get mothers willing to nest with other mothers.

Honestly, it was going so well I was surprised I hadn't got a roomie refusal before lil miss Vorpal threw her tantrum.

 

[Dimplz]

Does housed together, even siblings, or mom/daughter combos can become territorial when they are not housed properly. Does NEED 50 square feet of space per rabbit, and bucks need 20 square feet of space per rabbit.

Raising colony style, and giving the colony plenty of space will help stop the territorial behavior, and promotes shared nursing duties when two does share a nest.

Sometimes, does are just cranky all the time. Or, maybe she was not in her receptive cycle and had no mature eggs when you tried breeding her.

She will be unreceptive for 2 or 3 three straight days every 12 days. The cycle is 16 days long. For 2 days her body creates eggs, once she eggs waiting for fertilization she is receptive for the next 12 days, then her body reabsorbs the unfertilized eggs, and spend 2 days re-building them.

During her receptive periods, or when she has eggs waiting for the act of breeding to release them, her vent will swell up a little, and change colors from pale pink(not receptive) to a raspberry red color(highly receptive) to a dark purple(moving out of receptiveness).

She will still be receptive when she is dark purple, but if not bred, will go back to pale pink in the next few days.

 

[Robochelle]

Are you sure you have your numbers right?

Each doe NEEDS a 5 foot by 10 foot space?!?

Please provide sources, if that is the case.

Does housed together, even siblings, or mom/daughter combos can become territorial when they are not housed properly. Does NEED 50 square feet of space per rabbit, and bucks need 20 square feet of space per rabbit.

Are you sure you have your numbers right? Every single doe NEEDS 50 square feet? visualizing this as a 5 foot by 10 foot enclosure, that's an entire garden shed per doe.

Are you referencing a colony raising resource, with a particular amount of overlap per doe? And what size rabbit is this a requirement for, there will obviously be a difference between a mini lop and a Flemish giant, for example.

Could you please provide your sources?

My local law specifies a minimum of 5 sq ft for medium sized bucks, and does without kits at 1.5 sq ft. Obviously minimums, I've been using it as a guide where I need probably twice or more space, but 10 times what the law requires as their need, and the genders switched in terms of who needs more...

I need to read this resource before I house any more pairs of does

 

[kusanar314]

Are you sure you have your numbers right?

Each doe NEEDS a 5 foot by 10 foot space?!?

Please provide sources, if that is the case.



Are you sure you have your numbers right? Every single doe NEEDS 50 square feet? visualizing this as a 5 foot by 10 foot enclosure, that's an entire garden shed per doe.

Are you referencing a colony raising resource, with a particular amount of overlap per doe? And what size rabbit is this a requirement for, there will obviously be a difference between a mini lop and a Flemish giant, for example.

Could you please provide your sources?

My local law specifies a minimum of 5 sq ft for medium sized bucks, and does without kits at 1.5 sq ft. Obviously minimums, I've been using it as a guide where I need probably twice or more space, but 10 times what the law requires as their need, and the genders switched in terms of who needs more...

I need to read this resource before I house any more pairs of does

I believe they were talking about when housing in a group. When you house a group of animals they need more room than if you are housing them individually.

For example, a mature horse of average size can live comfortably in a 12x12 stall (with coming out for exercise, but their general living space can be that small). I wouldn't have 2 mature horses in a 24x12 area long term because they would be cramped even though they each have the same amount of area. I CERTAINLY wouldn't put 3 horses in a 12 x 36 area because you would have fighting happening. But put those same 3 horses in an acre and they are now fine.

 

[dlynn]

Are you sure you have your numbers right?

Each doe NEEDS a 5 foot by 10 foot space?!?

Please provide sources, if that is the case.



Are you sure you have your numbers right? Every single doe NEEDS 50 square feet? visualizing this as a 5 foot by 10 foot enclosure, that's an entire garden shed per doe.

Are you referencing a colony raising resource, with a particular amount of overlap per doe? And what size rabbit is this a requirement for, there will obviously be a difference between a mini lop and a Flemish giant, for example.

Could you please provide your sources?

My local law specifies a minimum of 5 sq ft for medium sized bucks, and does without kits at 1.5 sq ft. Obviously minimums, I've been using it as a guide where I need probably twice or more space, but 10 times what the law requires as their need, and the genders switched in terms of who needs more...

I need to read this resource before I house any more pairs of does

Most recommend 20 sq ft for each doe and kits and 10 for the buck in a colony. The larger the space the more overlap this can have. You can expand useable space with resting shelves and levels. Give them places to hide and get away
From each other. My family group of 4 does 1 buck easily share a shelter 4 X10 with a large exercise yard they have free access too. The shelter has permanent den boxes, the yard has additional hiding, resting places. Without the free access yard that shelter worked well for a trio.

 

[Skai]

Are you sure you have your numbers right?

Each doe NEEDS a 5 foot by 10 foot space?!?

Please provide sources, if that is the case.



Are you sure you have your numbers right? Every single doe NEEDS 50 square feet? visualizing this as a 5 foot by 10 foot enclosure, that's an entire garden shed per doe.

Are you referencing a colony raising resource, with a particular amount of overlap per doe? And what size rabbit is this a requirement for, there will obviously be a difference between a mini lop and a Flemish giant, for example.

Could you please provide your sources?

My local law specifies a minimum of 5 sq ft for medium sized bucks, and does without kits at 1.5 sq ft. Obviously minimums, I've been using it as a guide where I need probably twice or more space, but 10 times what the law requires as their need, and the genders switched in terms of who needs more...

I need to read this resource before I house any more pairs of does

No. My Cali/NZ breeding rabbits are all in 30"X30" cages with 30"X48" grow out cages that house 4 or 5 grow outs each. Some intensive breeders go even smaller. In my experience, you can never tell when a doe will be receptive to breeding but I have had only a few times when they weren't in the mood, and that was always with young does. If I provided 50 sq' feet per doe I wouldn't have the room.