TwoAcreDream":1cmlbori said:
I think you need to feed them more.
Too me it sounds like they are pregnant. Congrats
Thanks, we have tried to feed them more - they simply don't eat it. Once again, they are at a healthy weight, as shown by their condition. We can't force feed them pellets. If we see that they are eating all their pellets, we increase their feed the next day and going forward, that's what we've done from the start and have continued to do. They're not pigs about their food, so we have no problem with increasing their pellets if they finish them all the day before, because they do seem to self-regulate what they eat.
One thing for people to remember here - we are also in a temperate climate, I know some live in much colder regions and their rabbits require more feed in the winter. We are in zone 8b, our tomato starts are already outdoors, it's just not that cold here, and I understand that makes a difference.
I do hope they took! We certainly had what looked like a successful breeding at the time!
__________ Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:06 am __________
arachyd":1cmlbori said:
I'm wondering why you believe you shouldn't increase feed till the 4th week? The kits are growing and taking nutrients from the doe from the moment they exist. I give my pregnant does all the feed they can eat. I find mine go from grabbing big mouthfuls of pellets to nibbling a little at a time all day and actually eat less toward the end of the pregnancy, probably due to having less room inside them.
I've actually read that multiple times on this forum, as well as on other breeder's websites around the web. However, refer to my previous statements about this matter. Our does are basically on measured free-feed, because if they ever eat all their food, we increase their pellets the next day by an ounce, which at that point they will usually have a bit more left the next day. We do this because we are aware that they are growing themselves, and their feed needs will naturally increase.
__________ Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:33 am __________
Dood":1cmlbori said:
If youve lucked into some rabbits with AMAZING feed conversion then don't worry. Every rabbits metabolism is different - My 10 pound NZ x Flemmish buck only gets 4oz of 16% protein pellets and free fed grass hay and is still a bit flabby. Unfortunately only one of his daughters has inherited this trait and I'm working on a second generation with his great feed efficiency - fingers crossed :mrgreen:
Your rabbits are still young and they might be having a growth spurt as it is a bit early for the does to be needing extra calories for their embryos.
Remember that the extra herbs you feed also have calories and this might be why your buns seem to be getting by on less food than others members bloodlines.
My concern would be that if they aren't pregnant and you up the feed you may have problems getting them with kits next time if they've stored too much internal fat.
What percent protein are the pellets and what type of hay? If its 18% and alfalfa I would not be feeding them more unless they loose condition - you CANNOT go by body weight and must feel with your hands (no leather gloves) if they have good muscle tone over their skeleton - I would handle them every couple days and increase feed as needed.
Please keep us updated because if your feed efficiency is this good then we should definitely be promoting your breeders bloodline, I just wish I was closer to Washington State
I hope that we have lucked into some good feed conversion, especially since we pay over $30 for a 50 pound bag of organic pellets! We do get our organic hay for $5.50/40 pound bale (orchard grass/timothy mix I believe, I never wrote it down and have pain brain, I need to call the hay lady and ask!) so that is a great price at least.
We are feeding Modesto Mills organic rabbit pellets - 17% protein (alfalfa based) and a really excellent ingredients list. They use primarily food sources for all the vitamins and minerals, vs. synthetic vitamins (you can tell they're synthetic if actual vitamins are listed in the ingredients), which I personally believe are very beneficial, as they get entire vitamin complexes rather than isolated vitamins that way.
We actually check the buns for condition pretty much every day, (and the only time we wear gloves is if we're going to pick them up), since all three rabbits get separate petting sessions from both DH and I almost every day. I sometimes can't make it down the hill to the bunny barn if I'm having a really high pain day, especially since I've had two spinal procedures and a knee procedure in the past two months - but I still make it down on average of 5 days a week, and I've been teaching DH what to look for on condition.
All three of our buns have very firm bodies, they seem really well toned. Shaggy (our buck) feels much more muscular and seems like he is smaller than when we got him - but we give him enough pellets so that there is a little bit left over when we feed again the next evening, and he generally does not finish his hay. I actually told DH yesterday that I want to weigh him again to make sure he's not losing weight, although I think he was somewhat flabby when we got him, and that could be why he seems smaller.
I just looked at Shaggy's records - we started him at 8 ounces of pellets when we got him on Mar 1st - he wasn't finishing his pellets - to where one day his feeder was so full that we didn't add anything to it. Then we moved him down to 7 oz of pellets a day, but he wasn't eating it all after 5 days at that level, so he had a day of only 4 oz, then we switched him down to 6 oz of pellets per day. We kept him there for a while, but he would sometimes have several ounces left the next day - finally we decreased to 5 oz of pellets a day, which is where he's been pretty much all of April. We watch, and if he's ever completely empty we give him 6 oz that following day, but that's only happened twice in all of April - so he is getting what he wants to eat.
I couldn't remember, but according to his feed chart, he actually only gets his hay feeder filled about every 4 days (11" feeder), stuffed full and sky high. But, we also take usually 2-3 handfuls of hay each day and stick it through an opening in the ceiling, as well as side branches of apple branches - he loves to stand on his back feet to eat from his ceiling! That does make it hard to know how much hay he goes through. I think this is really good exercise, and might be why he seems slimmer and more muscular than before, but his spine still feels like the bumps are soft and well covered.
Btw - Shaggy weighed 9 lb 4 oz when we weighted him on April 4th - and to summarize, he is currently getting 5 oz of pellets per day, and free feed on hay. If we weren't putting the hay in the ceiling, I would guess that he would empty his 11" hay feeder maybe every 2-3 days?
We actually do the ceiling thing for the does too, they sometimes eat from the ceiling, sometimes not. They all 3 also get a couple apple branches each day, and they love to chew the bark - more exercise? No idea what the equivalent in calories are of the hay - they get 1/2-1 T per day, depending on the day. 1/2 T Echinacea 6 days a week and 1 T of a tummy/respiratory blend they get once a week, plus they all love pumpkin seeds, so they get maybe 1/2-1 T per week, but usually it's just a little each day - it's how I bribed Daphne to be friends!
__________ Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:40 am __________
Zass":1cmlbori said:
Even though the other rabbits went to freezer camp first, it doesn't necessarily mean they were the smallest!
I usually butcher my smaller rabbits first and keep the largest kits around a bit longer to "see what they do" and "just in case."
Those are the only meat-type rabbits I'd ever consider selling.
Your feed might not just be better quality, but with the ingredients I've seen listed, and the herbs your giving, they might be digesting it more completely as well.
I feel the same way - I think when we/they eat whole foods, we are getting things in a format that allows us to more easily digest and utilize all the nutrients better.
The breeder we purchased from had indicated that she butchered in order I think - but she didn't actually weigh any rabbits, just butchered, so it was all done by visual estimates. She actually didn't intend to sell any of the litter as breeding stock, only for meat, and she sells meat rabbits at a flat rate, which is what we paid her. As I mentioned, these girls were slated to be butchered at 10 weeks the weekend that I contacted the breeder - she held off butchering that Saturday morning so we could come look that afternoon. We really liked what we saw, so we paid for the trio and gave her a bit more money (she didn't ask) to hold them for us for two weeks while we rushed to build the rabbitry!
She doesn't follow a heavy breeding schedule, but she does appear to have good breeding stock - everything we saw looked nice and healthy, even though the cages were pretty dirty because her set-up is hard to get into for cleaning in the winter.
