Unbalanced 17 day old kit

[freelady96]

This kit is from a litter of 5. One was stillborn underdeveloped, so 4 healthy looking kits, all well fed. All eyes opened by day 12, except this one. Cleaned eyes and used some terramycin and looks good on day 17. except now looks like hes unbalanced, head somewhat tilted.
What should I be doing as all the books I have discuss head tilt in older rabbits. All the rest of kits are balanced and eyes are bright, no spots. Thank you.

 

[ladysown]

my guess is your does carries e.cunniculi and this kit now has been infected. you should treat your entire herd.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Tilted how/how much? Can they straighten their head? Do they usually move in a circle?
At two weeks it's possible for them to get Wry Neck. Not fatal, unless they have other health problems

 

[freelady96]

Not tilted much, can straighten head. Just walks kinda crooked, not circles.

Can kits this young be treated, or just momma doe?
I'll try to upload video tomorrow.

 

[freelady96]

View attachment 20240321_083536_1.mp4

 

[freelady96]

Looks the same today. I need to clean at treat eyes again. Let me know if you need a better video.

 

[freelady96]

I only have human fenbendazole in powder form. I dont feel confident to dose that correctly. I have no idea how they contracted this as this is very discouraging keeping everything clean. No signs/symptoms in any of herd and this is this does 10th successful litter. Only thing that's measurable that her litters have gotten smaller. I have 2 does, 2 bucks only for meat consumption.

Should I cull and just start over?
I was hoping to save the best doe but doesnt look like I can now.

 

[Alaska Satin]

I only have human fenbendazole in powder form. I dont feel confident to dose that correctly. I have no idea how they contracted this as this is very discouraging keeping everything clean. No signs/symptoms in any of herd and this is this does 10th successful litter. Only thing that's measurable that her litters have gotten smaller. I have 2 does, 2 bucks only for meat consumption.

Should I cull and just start over?
I was hoping to save the best doe but doesnt look like I can now.

I agree with @ladysown that it sounds like it could be E. cuniculi. In my experience it often also involves the eyes; you'll sometimes see a milky occlusion that comes and goes, and sometimes they'll protrude just a little.

For treating E. cuniculi I have successfully used Neomycin Oral, which unfortunately became unavailable without a prescription last June. The good news is that you can still buy it as "Wet-Tail Drops," which is made by Oasis for hamsters, and sold in most pet stores. For a rabbit kit, you can follow the directions on the side of the bottle for guinea pigs (weigh the kit to see if that is a good dosing and adjust from there). The safety range for this old drug is quite wide, so there is very little worry about overdosing.

I only treat the animal suffering from the symptoms, not all the rabbits. I've had 4-5 cases over the last 20 years, but have never seen what looks like contagion in my barn. In my experience, the E. cuniculi organism seems to be pretty much everywhere, and only certain animals become symptomatic, apparently related to their ability to handle stress. I tend not to use animals that have become symptomatic and then recovered for breeding, although we did have a Mini Rex doe that recovered and later had three successful litters, and never once did any of her offspring, or any of the ensuing three generations, suffer from it.

Here's Moonlight with some of her bunnies; you can see she still has a slight head tilt to the right, and her eye is ever-so-slightly bulging. She was such a character and remains one of everyone's favorites (in memory, now).

 

[freelady96]

Thank you the reply. I will try to look for the wet tail drops.
I was able to get safe-guard equine paste. 25 gram paste 10% 100mg/g.

Momma is 8.0 lbs .
At 20mg per kg. How much of the paste should I give her?

Pictures of momma

 

[Alaska Satin]

Thank you the reply. I will try to look for the wet tail drops.
I was able to get safe-guard equine paste. 25 gram paste 10% 100mg/g.

Momma is 8.0 lbs .
At 20mg per kg. How much of the paste should I give her?

Pictures of momma

When using Safeguard, I give a pea-sized amount for adults, although the mother looks fine to me. I don't see any photos or video of the kit, but for smaller rabbits I just scale the amount down. Fenbendazole also has very wide safety margin.

If you have fenbendazole, you might wait on using the neomycin oral (which is nice to have on hand, though, because it's often very effective for treating mucoid enteritis).

The other drug that has been effective in treating wry-neck due to E cuniculi is Ivomec. The 1% injectable solution for cattle can be given to rabbits (orally) at 1/10cc per pound of body weight. To use this drug, give it once, and again at seven days.

I wouldn't necessarily use these all together, as each one can have an upsetting effect on the rabbit's gut microorganisms. It's a good idea to simultaneously give the rabbit being treated a daily dose of Benebac or some other herbivore probiotic for this reason.

 

[freelady96]

Thank you
I do have a 13 sec. Video above. I will post another if the kit changes.
Does Fenben come through the mothers milk, and if so then doesnt all the kits get the antiparisitic?

 

[Alaska Satin]

Thank you
I do have a 13 sec. Video above. I will post another if the kit changes.
Does Fenben come through the mothers milk, and if so then doesnt all the kits get the antiparisitic?

There is no video posted, just a blank box (at least for me on my screen/computer).

I couldn't find any studies of fenbendazole in rabbit milk, but maybe someone else here has seen some. But there is research on fenbendazole in cow milk:

Fenbendazole residue concentrations in milk depleted form 270.5 μg/l at 10 hours after dosing with a micronised suspension formulation (7.5 mg fenbendazole/kg bw) to below the analytical limit of quantification (5 μg/kg) at all time points greater than 120 hours after dosing. When lactating cattle were dosed (7.5 mg fenbendazole/kg bw) using bolus preparation, the concentration of residues in milk decreased from 639 μg/kg 12 hours after dosing to 20 μg/kg (above the limit of quantification) at the final 137 hour time point measured.
from https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/docume...ommittee-veterinary-medicinal-products_en.pdf

What this suggests is that at least in cows, some fenbendazole was coming though in the milk: 639 μg/kg milk was detected at 12 hours versus the 7.5 mg fenbendazole/kg body weight administered to the cow. Comparing amounts present in milk by weight versus amount administered per body weight is admittedly a little bit of comparing apples to oranges. However, it shows that the drug did come through in milk, but at a reduced dosage.

Dosing rabbit kits this way doesn't seem to me to be a reliable approach, since you don't know how much they're getting, and it will dose them over time at varying but unquantifiable rates. Note that the only real toxicity researchers have shown (that I have found) for fenbendazole is when it was dosed in large quantities over long periods.

Also, if you dose all the kits, you will not be able to identify those that are immune/resistant to symptomology resulting from exposure to E cuniculi.

Here are some interesting studies on fenbendazole in rabbits, mice and rats:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5090138/ (rabbits with E cuniculi)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9413524/ (laboratory rodents)

And here is a fascinating article on the uses and side effects of fenbendazole in humans:
https://alternativemedicine.com/cancer/facts-you-might-not-have-known-about-fenbendazole/

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

If you are able to get the liquid fenbendazole for goats, the dose is one drop per 2 lb pretty much the same as the liquid 1% ivermectin dosage.

BTW I found the fatal dosage for ivermectin LOL it's 250 times recommended dose. So pretty much you can give a an 8 lb rabbit a dose for 2000 lbs and you might have a problem.

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

If you are able to get the liquid fenbendazole for goats, the dose is one drop per 2 lb pretty much the same as the liquid 1% ivermectin dosage.

BTW I found the fatal dosage for ivermectin LOL it's 250 times recommended dose. So pretty much you can give a an 8 lb rabbit a dose for 2000 lbs and you might have a problem.

Oh forgot to specify. I give fenbendazole orally, and ivermectin I drop on the back of their necks. I try to drop it directly on their skin. I usually give a drop or two extra.

 

[freelady96]

I started the wet tail drops. 16 gtts, (according to pkg.) morning and night, but was super difficult to get kit to take it.
So by day 3 i stopped and started just a wee bit of Fen Ben. This morning i can hardly tell the kits apart. One eye is slightly squinted, but is looking so much better. Thxs.

 

[freelady96]

Kit looks just as healthy as the other kits now at 4 weeks. Just a wee bit of a head tilt. Day 12 of a tiny amount of fenben to kit and pea size to mama.

I'm uncertain if I should rebred mama doe. She has no symptoms, never did.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Kit looks just as healthy as the other kits now at 4 weeks. Just a wee bit of a head tilt. Day 12 of a tiny amount of fenben to kit and pea size to mama.

I'm uncertain if I should rebred mama doe. She has no symptoms, never did.

I love their ears