Ugh! Whole litter being lost?!

[Morning Star]

I recently started breeding rabbits so I'm not an expert by any means. However, our very first litter between a pure NZ and a NZ-Californian cross have been giving us a lot of trouble. Here's the story:

When they were born, they went great! We only lost one and that's normal so I wasn't worried, and it had been an 8-baby litter. Yaaaay! They were raising fine up until about 4 or 5 (I think?) weeks in when they started dying. Suddenly. Without any reason; we lost three in rapid succession, but I hadn't found any alive and dying til the 3rd one. It was having seizures; the head was back and it was laying on its side and breathing very, very slowly. When I tried to put it upright its head slowly arched backwards again and it had 'hopping' sort of seizures. I ended up mercy-killing it because there was no saving it.

There was a 4th baby who was showing symptoms, but wasn't quite 'gone'. He wasn't eating or drinking so I ended up feeding him cucumber - when it pooped, the poops were little bitty tiny things that looked like sad raisins but as I put him through intensive bunny care, I saw they got bigger the more he ate. They'd been stealing their mom's food for awhile but they were still nursing at that point ( they didn't have free-range pellets or free-range greens because I saw they were stealing it like little sneaks and didn't want them to go through diet-change shock ) and that was about when I removed the nest box too. We'd been keeping it clean so I don't think that was the cause, and I DEFINITELY know it wasn't the cause because now, 3 and a half months into their raising, two more died. Including my favorite.

I came out there again and it was EXACTLY like last time - one was dead, one was in the process of dying, and the same one that was showing trouble last time was showing it this time (he seems to be fine now, but the process was the EXACT same thing as last time, small poops, lethargy, somewhat unwilling to eat). However, there is one more symptom and I'm not sure if it's related - the found-dead one was one that's been having trouble with poopy bottom. Her rectum was a little puffy and always had wet brown 'sludge' on it; not much, but just a tiny bit. She had been showing worse symptoms about two weeks ago, when it was protruding enough to see the inside of the rectum (bright reddish pink, not blood just the color of insides). She was the only one who had this out of the whole litter, and she'd been recovering steadily despite not doing anything. Their cage is clean and has an open bottom, and I feed/water them regularly. I haven't done a necropsy any of them yet due to lack of time, but I have every lost bun in the freezer so I can go through all five ( ) of them to see if their insides have shown anything.

Basically, they show no signs and symptoms until they're dead or dying. There was one other thing that seems odd to me - this whole litter was more 'wooly' than I feel it should be coming out of a New Zealand and NZ/Calif pair. Their fur is much longer than their mom or dad's. I've attached a couple pics to try and show what I mean, including one of the dad and mom. I don't know what's going on here but I really don't want to lose the last two! Any ideas???

 

[Zass]

I'm sorry you lost so many babies!

What exactly were they eating at that time?

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm a bit confused about how you have been feeding them. By four or five weeks, most bunnies are at least partially weaned and should have free access to the same food as mom gets. They start by just nibbling as soon as they are mobile and gradually increase their intake of solid food as mom's milk supply diminishes.

 

[Morning Star]

I was having problems with them weaning early (they weren't going to mama at all for milk, just wanted the pellets or greens) so I had to watch their food or they'd reject her entirely. I didn't have that problem with the other litter, which was weird, but it's why I wasn't giving them free-range (I was making sure they got enough).

They were eating pellets, collards, BOSS in very small once-daily quantities to help mama get her weight back up (Completely forgot, but after the birth she was having weight issues so I was taking steps to help her with that) and to make sure they'd be good too, they had a small amount of kale about once a week, romaine lettuce, chickweed grown in our back yard, henbit, and grass, as well as dead nettle (both dead nettle and henbit got looked up for rabbit safety! ). Since then their diets have varied a little, but the constants are pellets, collards, henbit, dead nettle, chickweed, grass. However, all our other rabbits are also on the same exact diet and none of them have been hit like this.

 

[Dood]

In the future - if the kits want to wean early then let them. If mom was struggling then likely her milk was suffering and the kits wanted to get nutrition elsewhere.

If you think it is not diet related then a disease or parasite is the likely culprit, or just poor genetics :shrug: A necropsy is needed to see if there is anything abnormal in the lungs, liver and kidneys. You should be able to see pin worms in the interstines but to diagnose a bacterial intestinal imbalance a very fresh carcass is needed.

 

[Zass]

I agree with Dood, it's better to free fed at that age. Some rabbits are entirely weaned by 4 weeks, and lots of people have told me that their rabbits wean naturally before 6 weeks. (I wean later, if I can, but every rabbit seems to be different) I have had them weaned as early as three weeks before without one single case of weaning enteritis.

Also, even small dietary changes can be a disaster for kits under 8 weeks, so try to keep their food types and ratios as stable as possible, if nothing else than to rule it out as a possibility if something goes wrong later.

I know that kits who are started on greens from their first nibbles do handle them better than ones who aren't.
If I put my kits on the same diet you are feeding, most of them would die.
But that doesn't mean it's what caused your kits to drop off. Hopefully the necropsy reveals a bit more info.

 

[DogCatMom]

Do the experienced breeders here see any difficulty with collards being prominent in the diet of young bunnies? Collards are a brassica (cabbage-related) vegetable, as is kale (although the kale was being provided only once a week).

Thank you.

 

[Morning Star]

Aaah, thank you! I hope it's not the diet. I was following what I read on here and a couple other rabbit websites, but I guess it could have had some contribution. If it happens to be the diet I'll definitely change it up. The other litter is doing great though! Fat happy babies (Well, not babies by now, they're all 3 and a half months old, about).

Edit: When I do a necropsy I'll definitely come back with the findings.

 

[skysthelimit]

Collards are controversial, causing gas and all, so I just avoid them, even though they grow like weeds in my yard.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Do the experienced breeders here see any difficulty with collards being prominent in the diet of young bunnies? Collards are a brassica (cabbage-related) vegetable, as is kale (although the kale was being provided only once a week).

Thank you.

The problem is not with the collards,or kale, it is with having them available everyday, and in gradual introduction, -the problems start when they have not had any -and then they are given a bunch of them. I have found ,-that if rabbits have greens available every day, they will not bloat. --It is the changes we put them through, that cause the damage/ problems.

 

[Prisma]

With others, rabbits will wean themselves if they need to. Only time restriction of pellets/food should be done is if they are a known cause or there is a poo issue and they are on a hay/water diet or some thing of the like. I'd say if you free feed the next litter and just watch for other things, wean as they tell you not other, be fine. I'm not sure where you found on the board about restricting things to babies unless it was to not let them gain a great deal of weight (fat) or start slow and build up with new foods which means like the greens/odd grains/etc really when they have never had it before and momma isn't eating it already.