Tough kindle, UPDATE: Need a few more opinions please

[PSFAngoras]

My second FA doe that I was expecting a litter from kindled tonight. She had a very rough time, the third kit got stuck and died, and one more dead after that along with one more live kit. She was bred prior to this time twice, and wouldn't take. Took this time obviously, but five is a small litter to her usual 9-10.

She also is a doe that gets wool block during her term, and though I was able to stay on top of it this time she still lost weight.

Poor girl is so shook up she was begging for pets from me. She's never been a mean rabbit, but she likes to be left to her own devices. She never begs for attention, so I know she went through a lot on this litter.

Almost wondering if I shouldn't slip the kits in with the doe that kindled two days ago and let momma sit this one out. It's only three kits, and she loves her kits so much she usually stops eating for a day or two when I start separating them out of her cage for weaning, but I'm more worried about being able to keep her around.

If anything I can foster the kits over to the first time doe (who is handleing her kits VERY well, all fat and happy, and I don't think three more to her six will stretch the milk too far) and give this girl time to recover and then let her have another shot.

Or I can leave the kits and just let her get on with this litter, though it will be a bit harder for her to recover herself. She pulled through all right from her last litter of 10 with wool block, but the kindling was much easier on her.

Maybe I'm just worried because I bought her mother bred, and it was her third time too, and she lost all 9 kits and died the next day.

Not sure where to go, never had a doe have a hard time, so what do you all think?

__________ Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:49 pm __________

Oh, and this is her third litter, her other two went beautifully. No clue what went wrong this time, as she's perfectly healthy other than being a bit underweight from the wool block (which is passed) and having a hard time kindling.

 

[ladysown]

three kits won't tax her. I would take it on a day by day basis. monitor her and the kits condition closely. Last thing she would need is mastitis on top of it all.

 

[PSFAngoras]

That was a concern, but with only having nursed once and she didn't feel like she was producing much just yet, I don't think it would have been a problem.

I did check on her just now, she seems to be okay, passed one more kit overnight, looked healthy, but stretched out. Didn't make it either. The three that were alive last night still are, and are fed again and happy, and the doe was even pretty active and was watching my every move while checking on them, so I'll leaver her and her kits be. She just enjoys her kits too much for me to want to separate them.

Any idea why she could have had issues? She put on some weight between her last litter and this one, but it wasn't that much, I doubt it would have been enough to cause complications like this. I suppose each doe has a litter or two where they struggle, but she's always done such an amazing job.

I'd love to keep using her in my breeding program, her kits are terrific woolers and have very loving temperaments, but I don't know if she'll have complications again. I would rather keep her as a wooler herself than lose her. She's one of the two rabbits in the property that has earned a place as a pet if she can no longer breed, but with a very small rabbitry (9 permanent holes, 6 grow out) I'd like to keep her producing if I can. She's only 2 years old.

Any thoughts? I know someone out there must have tried a doe again after complications, how did it turn out? Should I give her another go when this litter is raised and gone or should I just retire her instead of risking another litter like this one and potentially losing her in the process too?

 

[ladysown]

an earlier breed back sometimes helps as larger litter = smaller kits.

I've done it quite successfully.

Why one litter is harder than others? I don't know. Just the way the genetics play out.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I wouldn't risk it.. I leave the babies with her .. then I would retire her ..I think that was telling you something. Next time you will not be so lucky

 

[PSFAngoras]

Thank you to both of you, but I think I am going to try to change the title to see if I get a few more opinions. I value both of your thoughts very much, but with them being so conflicting I would like to hear others' experience in a similar situation as well and how it turned out for them before making a decision.

The doe in question has been a very large part of my breeding program, and thinking she was still so young, I was an idiot and sold all of her kits that I had. If I can keep her in the program and get a few more replacements, I'd love to, but I am really scared to lose this girl.

I do know where a few of her daughters are, but they're at homes that wouldn't be willing to let them go. I did just let the owners of one come back to line breed back to her father though, and they got to kits from another litter for future trade value, so I could probably get a replacement for Ruby (the doe) back from that, though there is no guarantee that her coat will be anything close to her grandmother's quality.

Ugh, why can't things ever be easy?!

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

raising rabbits isn't that easy

 

[PSFAngoras]

I know, but on top of everything else that has happened this year it would just be icing on the cake if I had to retire my best doe...

 

[bobqdevon]

I wouldn't risk it.. I leave the babies with her .. then I would retire her ..I think that was telling you something. Next time you will not be so lucky

:yeahthat:

 

[Homer]

PSFA, Just how old is Ruby? How many litters has she had? Did you use the same Buck each time? I ask because my experience has been the older the Doe the fewer kits she has. One (retired) doe we have started out having 13 (one DOA) then 11 (twice) and then 7 with 2 DOA. Each time mating with the same buck. After that she wouldn't conceive anymore, yet the buck proved himself with another doe. Should have gotten rid of her a year ago but I figured what the heck, she produced well for me so I just keep feeding her. :hmm:

 

[PSFAngoras]

She's only two. This would be her third litter, and it had been the same buck each time.

I would like to try her at least once more with my other buck, her half brother, then I'd be happy to retire her. I emailed another breeder that is basically where the does lines are from (her parents were from this breeder and a friend of hers, so she knows the lines well) and she said to let her raise this litter, give her time to heal, and try again. She doesn't think it will happen again. Her lines are also very long lasting, she still gets large litters from her 8 year olds, and they take GC at shows.

I think I'll just play it by ear and see. If she has a good recovery with no infection and heals well (considering her attitude is already back to her pre-bred state, active and cheery, always begging for treats) then I think I'll give it another go in about four to six months. If she seems to go downhill for some reason and get an infection and takes a slow road to recovery, then she'll be retired, and be a spoiled rotten pet bunny in my office.

 

[Homer]

You're right, if she's only two she should be giving you more kits that that. Maybe she just missed this time around. Been mighty cold for December around here, maybe she wasn't physically ready...I agree with your breeder friend though, let her raise the litter herself and try again in a month or so. I mean after all, nobody likes a "spoiled rotten pet bunny". :lookout:

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I have to disagree on this... Age shouldn't matter that much.. there is 5 year rabbits till producing nice size kits... Every rabbit is different .. just because she is 2,, don't mean to go ahead and breed her anyways... She also has problems with wool block in the past.. but you did answer your own question... You want to have another litter and take a chance.. and that is what you are going to do.. In the end it is your choice and your rabbit.