Too many kits for mom to care for?

[Juci]

I just had my first major loss in my rabbitry last night. My NZ/checkered giant doe Lady Grey kindled while I was away at work and I came home to find her in the nest box with 8 dead babies. They all looked well formed and appeared to have been trampled and some bitten.

This doe has successfully raised 2 litters prior. She’s lost kits before but never this many. The only thing I can think of that was different about this one is that it was a really large litter for her, with 11 total, 3 are still alive and she fed them this morning.
She had 8 in her last litter and I found 2 smashed at around day 10. I think maybe her capacity is 6 babies and this time she freaked out with so many?

I was wondering if it’s common for does to downsize larger litters, and if so what’s the point of trying to breed for litter size? Or is it just a matter of selecting for mothering abilities?

I’m currently raising up one of her daughters to replace my older doe and now wondering if maybe that wasn’t a good decision.

 

[Juci]

I meant to add, I’ve noticed that Lady Grey tends to be aggressive with other rabbits, I wonder if that’s a sign to look out for when it comes to selecting good mothers.

It’s a shame too, because she’s by far the sweetest doe to people and easiest to handle. I had high hopes for her.

My older doe is a complete pain to handle and mean as anything, but she’s a great mother and has never lost a single kit. Maybe I should have kept a daughter from her instead.

 

[Buknee]

Hi Juci, I am sorry that you lost 8 kits. It's tough with losses. I would not attribute it to too large of a litter for her to handle. Mama rabbits are pretty amazing. I have had a mama successfully raise all 14 of her kits.

Could something be spooking her? She might be jumping into her nest box trying to protect them.
I have a new mama that I barely even look at her because so freaks and jumps in her box when I do. She is over protective, which is not good in my eyes. She lost two of her babies within 24 hours. She is normally a very sweet, calm rabbit.

 

[Juci]

Hi Juci, I am sorry that you lost 8 kits. It's tough with losses. I would not attribute it to too large of a litter for her to handle. Mama rabbits are pretty amazing. I have had a mama successfully raise all 14 of her kits.

Could something be spooking her? She might be jumping into her nest box trying to protect them.
I have a new mama that I barely even look at her because so freaks and jumps in her box when I do. She is over protective, which is not good in my eyes. She lost two of her babies within 24 hours. She is normally a very sweet, calm rabbit.

Oh wow! 14 kits is amazing, that definitely puts things in perspective for me.
I can’t think of anything different that might be happening except that a few of my chickens keep getting on top of the rabbit cages at night. I didn’t think it was an issue but maybe it’s spooking her. I clipped their wings tonight and set out some rat traps to see if that’s been getting out of control.

Thank you for the insight, it’s great to know that they’re capable of raising such big litters, I was starting to think it was really uncommon or something.

 

[Preitler]

Downsizing a litter is no concept rabbits have, and 11 is a lot but not too much.

I too would think that there's something making her hop in when her mind is preoccupied, like something spooking her. With chickens around I also would set a camera or traps to check for rats, just to be sure.

Does she have another hiding place, like a low shelf or table to get under or a hidy house, or one corner of the cage covered with a tarp, something she would feel safer than out in the open?
Maybe a different nestbox design might be worth a try - I used closed wooden boxes, too low to sit upright, and with a hole on one end ca. 3" off the ground (with a ramp outside so it's easier for the kits to get back in than out), that design doesn't lend to jumping in and out on a whim.

 

[Buknee]

Oh wow! 14 kits is amazing, that definitely puts things in perspective for me.
I can’t think of anything different that might be happening except that a few of my chickens keep getting on top of the rabbit cages at night. I didn’t think it was an issue but maybe it’s spooking her. I clipped their wings tonight and set out some rat traps to see if that’s been getting out of control.

Thank you for the insight, it’s great to know that they’re capable of raising such big litters, I was starting to think it was really uncommon or something.

You are welcome. Yes, the chickens could spook them. Plus, you don't want their waste falling into your rabbit cages. It can be harmful to your rabbits.

 

[Juci]

Downsizing a litter is no concept rabbits have, and 11 is a lot but not too much.

I too would think that there's something making her hop in when her mind is preoccupied, like something spooking her. With chickens around I also would set a camera or traps to check for rats, just to be sure.

Does she have another hiding place, like a low shelf or table to get under or a hidy house, or one corner of the cage covered with a tarp, something she would feel safer than out in the open?
Maybe a different nestbox design might be worth a try - I used closed wooden boxes, too low to sit upright, and with a hole on one end ca. 3" off the ground (with a ramp outside so it's easier for the kits to get back in than out), that design doesn't lend to jumping in and out on a whim.

Thank you for the insight! I currently have the metal kind, and I took out her hidey house the day before she kindled so that she doesn’t try to have the babies in there since she did that with the first litter and their legs were hanging out the wire.

Maybe that freaked her out to suddenly not have it anymore and she tried to get into the nest box instead.

I’ll definitely see if I can find a different style nest box for her to try- the closed wooden box you described sounds great!

 

[Alaska Satin]

All of the above responses are helpful, inlcuding the thoughts about rats; in fact, they might have been the killers rather than the doe herself. But here's another thing to consider. Many rabbit does absolutely hate mice. It has happened very rarely for me, but the only times I have ever had does kill their entire litters, there was evidence that mice had been in the cages; in fact a couple of times there was mouse poo in the nest box itself. (Ugh.) I don't think the mice actually kill the kits, but I and several of my rabbit-raising friends suspect that the doe is trying to kill the mouse but ends up stomping everything in the box (the kits are not eaten, just stomped).

We don't have a rat problem, but some years, last year in fact, are "mouse years" and I have nearly zero-tolerance for mice in the barn now. If you raise in a colony setting it might be harder to control, but it's something to think about, anyway.