Time for an experiment

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I don't agree that anyone hijacked my thread at all, you're all adding valuable information <br /><br /> __________ Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:58 pm __________ <br /><br /> Thanks guys, this is exactly the sort of thing I wanted from this thread. Keep it coming :D
 
I have seen and been involved in rabbitries that have been in existence for 10 to 20 years whose stock all came from a single pair , or 2 pairs of rabbits, they were very productive , and fast growing, -- The one man I talked to about it [ who had been in production for over 20 years], said he had no idea who was related to who, and did not pay any attention to any of that-[he said it was all BS]- he said he selected the best rabbits from the best litters, and just put them in the replacement cages. He only kept cage cards with only the dam / sire listed, to see how bucks and does were doing. --He had no other record system.--
 
Bad attitudes
- cage possessive when not pregnant and dangerous with a litter to protect
- Does were murderous to other rabbits and their own kits after 4 weeks old
-overly aggressive/?eager? bucks who drew blood on does during mounting

Poor fertility
- does didnt have litters 31 days after breeding with 2-3 coverings
- small litter sizes of under 8

Poor milk production
- not enough to feed 8 kits well
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Were these apparent in the new stock or was new stock fine and only the second generation crosses affected?
 
The original pair from the SB "show bloodline" were mental and the doe was the worst.

I crossed them to my PB "production bloodline" in the hopes to improve the looks of PB and the attitude and production qualities of SB but even with 1/4 of the SB genes in them the production traits were lacking, although the attitude improved somewhat and they were not as territorial.

Since I don't show and my show sales were minimal I decided to scrap the SB and stick with PB.

However, I have started a 2nd mutt bloodline by adding in my Mini Lop buck to the gene pool for a disease resistant (more specifically hepatic coccidia) bloodline and hope to try pasturing them in the spring :D
 
That is interesting that even with 1/4 blood they still are lacking in production traits. I guess that stresses the importance of starting with good stock.

It might be an interesting experiment to start with poor stock and see how many generations it took to improve them. Although, I don't think I'd have the patience.

Has anyone read about the Russian fox project? Something like 40 generations of selecting for gentleness in foxes raised for fur resulted in a lot of interesting characteristics similar to those found in domestic dogs. Floppy ears and white patterns being the most noticeable.

http://cbsu.tc.cornell.edu/ccgr/behaviour/history.htm
 
It might be an interesting experiment to start with poor stock and see how many generations
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I did this with my pet / feeder mice :)

I started out with very friendly, colourful and small pet mice that rarely had more than 8 in a litter and once I got into reptile breeding I started selecting to maintain their good temperaments and for large litter size, then large body size and I was quite happy with them after a few years - I'd say around 15 generations :)

Begining starter colonies with pet store feeders can cause problems as they often lack good temperaments and tend to be skittish, less social and even cannibalistic. I could house my males togeather without fighting and my females were very comfortable with communal nesting and didn't fight over pinkies :) although I did give my mice a lot of enrichments and that probably helped too.
 
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I think there's enough people doing the 'poor stock' experiment already. :p
I know I didn't have the patience for it. I have two rabbits left from my original line and they're here to see if I can improve the milk production in my herd. Technically, I only have one since the castor doe actually belongs to Whipple.
 
I only have 1 doe left from my original lines. Misia. Her temperament could use an upgrading but her mothering and milk supply are exceptional. I do wish that she would produce more than 6 kits though. She is 1/2 dutch and 1/2 lynx palomino.
 
alforddm":128r46q7 said:
I think there's enough people doing the 'poor stock' experiment already.
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:laugh2: :laugh2:
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:yeahthat:

There are enough of us who would have strongly preferred to stay away from THAT particular experiment, but weren't lucky enough to start with good stock! :roll:

No point in intentionally losing quality in a line when it's hard enough just to maintain it!!! :lol:
 
My thoughts exactly Zass. I don't have nearly enough cage space to waste any by going backwards.

If I didn't need to keep peds I'd be very tempted to follow that practise m4g. I am pretty much at the point of not buying any more stock, for the otters at least, I may buy one or two more tris later in the year at Convention. (Can't not go when its that close, it's highly unlikely to be this close to me again)
 
3mina":1b273vaa said:
My thoughts exactly Zass. I don't have nearly enough cage space to waste any by going backwards.

If I didn't need to keep peds I'd be very tempted to follow that practise m4g. I am pretty much at the point of not buying any more stock, for the otters at least, I may buy one or two more tris later in the year at Convention. (Can't not go when its that close, it's highly unlikely to be this close to me again)
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over the years I have bought less and less outside bucks, as I seem to have to start over with selecting good traits, and removing bad traits every time I bring in new genetics, - I have never seen the negative side to "inbreeding/ line breeding /breeding closely related bloodlines, in my own stock.-- but I have seen it in other peoples stock, - and ,it was always related to poor breeding practices or colony situations where indiscriminate breeding took place for a few years. The worst thing a new breeder can do-- is to keep everything regardless of quality, and breed it to increase production fast. -they will make a mess that will take years to clean up, or will go broke and quit. It takes good stock to make money in meat rabbits.- poor stock will eat up all of your profits.
 
I find it easy to pick bucks from my stock, its picking does that I fail at. I've decided I need to separate the sexes then go over the does without looking at the bucks
 
3mina":1ez0bi6x said:
I find it easy to pick bucks from my stock, its picking does that I fail at. I've decided I need to separate the sexes then go over the does without looking at the bucks
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I do that, -- I take all the kits from the best litters, separate them into sexes, then look them each over carefully to determine who will go on to the next step.
 
I've found my pairs for my sibling breeding experiment.

The first pair is from a partially pedigreed litter of martenized Cals from my REW doe (culled after three litters) & my broken chocolate buck. This litter was heading for the freezer but Whipple convinced me to keep them for a friend who tans and wants white pelts. When I pulled them out I got a pleasant surprise, size and coat. The litter (1 buck, 3 does) looks like the doe was running out of toner, I have black, chocolate, blue and lilac. I'm going to add another element to breeding these four and see if I can get rid of the agouti and have properly marked Cals.

The second pair is going to be otters, blue and chocolate. The blue otter doe is a sibling product already and she's lovely, the chocolate otter buck is from the does aunt and my broken chocolate buck. These are potentially two of the best rabbits in my herd. Potentially because neither has been bred yet :mrgreen:

I was going to use my opal buck but I'm not very interested in the agoutis other than the tris so I think I need to make some room. There's a few that made it through the fall cull that haven't blossomed as I'd hoped so the cull list is getting longer.
 
:cool: I do my best.

I'm quite pleased with these four actually. While I haven't ever weighed them they're the same size or bigger than my favourite red doe who's about six weeks older. They did take a while longer to get there though which is why they were on the cull list in the first place.

__________ Thu May 28, 2015 10:34 pm __________

Well so much for the martenized Cals :evil: The worst rabbits in the herd :x
Pretty much a complete waste of cage space and feed, the buck was ok but the does, ick just ick.
My castor 'super' doe decided last summer was her grand finale and missed twice this spring, her first two misses ever *sigh*

I sold thecal buck to a meat breeder and he's doing great for her, she's very happy with him. The does have each given me one litter and while the litter size is good, that's about all that is. The temperaments on these really leave a lot to be desired and the growth rate won't cut it here, it's just not what I'm looking for. So those will not be part of my 'sibling program'

I bred all my otters and while I was writing out pedigrees I realized that two were sibs. I had kept a pair last year from a breeding I had done with a very generous local judge in November. So the F1 generation of my sibling program is now in the nestbox and is 12 days old. The litter is only 6 but the doe is also fostering 3 from my litter of 15 (now 13, 2 got dragged out of the nestboxes) and all 9 are chunky little things.
 
an agouti rabbit with dark points? or a white rabbit with points being an agouti color?
 

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