This one's got me stumped!

[PSFAngoras]

It's very rare that I would bring home a rabbit from the pet store (last one came down with the dreaded P a week in, thank god for quarantine!) but after I saw this girl I had to be able to ask you all what color you think she is! (Though 4-6 weeks of quarantine is in order before she even knows the other rabbits exist) The worst part about it is that she's only an appetizer, maybe 4 pounds. :lol: I was able to trade my old 10 gallon fish tank for her though, so I'm won't complain too much.

The most I could find out about her is that her dad *MIGHT* be a harlequin mini satin, but no clue as to anything else. No age, nothing. Looks like she might have a bit of Nethie in her too? Her face is a bit rounder than that of a typical mini satin doe. And upon palpitation it feels like she'll be going to need a nest box in two and a half weeks or so. No clue who dad might be as she's only been in with a the male lion head for the last 3 days.

I really need help with her color though! All I can guess is maybe the harlequin gene got mixed up with the broken and shaded genes, but that doesn't explain that the spotting goes into the shading on her ears and nose. (Hopefully the face pic depicts this, but she does have solid black spots in the shaded area on her face.) And why if she's shaded that the spots on the rest of her body are primarily black, though one or two are sable looking. Could it be some strange sabled magpie thing? (The shaded gene instead of the chin gene?) I have to know what she is! and how I can get more of these colored bunnies... :twisted:

Dood, HELP!

 

[Nyctra]

She's the chinchilla variant of a tricolor, looks like nonagouti. I can't tell whether she's cchl or cchd, I think sable point though. :?

 

[EnglishSpot]

That is a REALLY CUTE RABBIT. I wouldn't mind a few of those!!!!

 

[Dood]

Broken torted magpie

She is has strong black markings so I "think" she has a chin/dark shaded and not sable/light shaded gene

aa B_ cchd_ D_ ej_ Enen

 

[PSFAngoras]

She's the chinchilla variant of a tricolor, looks like nonagouti. I can't tell whether she's cchl or cchd, I think sable point though. :?

That's what I thought, but she's got to have the shaded gene due to her nose and ears, but that doesn't explain why she has the black everywhere, unless only the areas that would normally be white are shaded and the black marked areas are unaffected. I thought if they were shaded the black gene would be affected too though, but I have a minimal understanding of how shaded and Harli would overlap as I have neither of those genes in the rest of the herd.

__________ Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:16 pm __________

Broken torted magpie

She is has strong black markings so I "think" she has a chin/dark shaded and not sable/light shaded gene

aa B_ cchd_ D_ ej_

Ahh, okay, that makes more sense, I thought the under looked sallander, but for some reason that didn't cross my mind in combination with the magpie markings.

Thanks! <br /><br /> __________ Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:25 pm __________ <br /><br /> Soooo, what should I cross Her with to get more of her color? I have chinchilla, broken fawn, and silvered black at my immediate disposal, with access to a Harli, a chocolate shaded (siamese?), blue tort, and REW through friends / in laws.

The chinchilla does carry self and possibly extension (so may or may not get the Harli/magpie effect), but I know the choc shaded has the extension, though shaded might mess with the chin, right? The Harli *MIGHT* carry chin, but no guarantees, can't remeber if his kits are self or agouti based though... Going to visits that friend this weekend, so I'll go look.

 

[Dood]

I thought I read you had a blue sallander buck :shrug:

IMHO they look better if not torted so having self isn't as critical but you need a buck with chin,shaded,himi or REW on their C-locus and non extension on their E-locus.

Does the fawn carry any of those C-locus recessives ? If so you could get 50% magpies and broken magpies

 

[PSFAngoras]

I actually think the fawn does carry chin on the c locus, but haven't been able to prove it. I did have a blue sallander buck, but he had bad conformation, so I ended up selling him. I definately have the potential to make more though.

 

[JenerationX]

I'd say leopard spotted appaloosa..

Oh wait... it's a rabbit. LOL

She's adorable!

 

[baefull.wolfbunnies]

I'd say leopard spotted appaloosa..

Oh wait... it's a rabbit. LOL

She's adorable!

haha :lol: :yeahthat: made me snort. The rabbit is adorable, by the way

 

[PSFAngoras]

Thanks, she's a complete little love, too. I palpitated again today and I think what I felt yesterday wasn't kits, she's so small where the kits would be on my rabbits is where her GI tract is, so it was just bunny berries! I guess I'll keep palpitating, though I desperately hope that there won't be a litter sired by that lion head buck. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed she makes it through quarantine all right and that I can pair her to a buck soon after!

 

[JenerationX]

I'd say leopard spotted appaloosa..


Oh wait... it's a rabbit. LOL

She's adorable!

haha :lol: :yeahthat: made me snort. The rabbit is adorable, by the way

Horse colors are sooooo much easier. Maybe because I've seen and understand most of them, but they seem easier anyways.

 

[Susie570]

So true! Most horse colors are very straight forward and the bunny colors are really confusing, especially when the experts start disagreeing with each other!! Goodness gracious. That bunny would definitely be a leopard spot appaloosa if it were a horse (which I've always been partial to).

 

[Dood]

I disagree

I find it MUCH harder to differentiate the different colour genes in horses - it's nearly impossible to tell Amber champagne from buckskins or Apricots from Chestnut pearls without genetic testing - then add in the tobiano, overo, sabino, rabicano, grey, roan and multiple appaloosa genes that add white and I'm at a loss

Give me a rabbit any day

 

[alforddm]

I think it all has to do with experience. I've been studying horse color for about 20 years so there isn't much I haven't seen and while some of the KIT gene mutations are hard, I can tell most of them apart on a glance. I won't pretend I can do the same thing for rabbits.

Thanks to y'all I'm learning though!

 

[PSFAngoras]

I have to say I much prefer rabbit genetics too.

A good majority of rabbits I can look at and splurt out a genetic code, but I have no personal experience with either Harli or shaded, so that's why I had to refer to the experts here!

I did ponder breeding betta fish for a while. Let me tell you, THOSE genetics are confusing. I couldn't understand why it couldn't be set up like the rabbits are (abcde fashion) but they don't even know enough about their genetics yet to tell what exactly controls what, only a small idea of what does. It's really confusing!

 

[JenerationX]

I have to say I much prefer rabbit genetics too.

A good majority of rabbits I can look at and splurt out a genetic code, but I have no personal experience with either Harli or shaded, so that's why I had to refer to the experts here!

I did ponder breeding betta fish for a while. Let me tell you, THOSE genetics are confusing. I couldn't understand why it couldn't be set up like the rabbits are (abcde fashion) but they don't even know enough about their genetics yet to tell what exactly controls what, only a small idea of what does. It's really confusing!

I have a friend that used to breed those... sounded like she was speaking another language 2 minutes into a genetics discussion. lol

 

[akane]

I started with horse genetics and took a class on it. I find it easy but I grew up with horses and breeding horses so I visually know most colors. I may not have seen champagne or apricot but I know when it's not the right color for similar things that I have seen. Also much like different rabbit breeds have unique colors and color names I can Identify the breed or group of similar breeds of horses so I know if a specific color does not exist or is only found in that breed.

Animal that utterly stumped me was chickens. :lol: Individual purebreds you can find some genetic info on or at least what colors make what colors. Make mutts though and it's a whole different game. Every gene combo could be in there and half the genes have more than one way to make it like recessive and dominant white both existing. I have a book nearly 3 fingers thick on poultry genetics and I understand maybe 1/4th of it.

 

[PSFAngoras]

I got asked to post the little doe's color on rabbitcolors.info. I'll post the link here if it gets approved by the mods there, but this is the description i wrote-

" a torted self black chinchilla (sallander) based rabbit with the ej gene causing magpie coloration in combination with the broken gene causing the particular spotting effect. This doe is believed to be part Mini Satin (U.S. Breed). The rest of her background is unknown. Thanks to the folks at rabbittalk.com for helping me figure out her color and rabbitcolors.info for creating a site to help educate people on the color genetics of the domestic rabbit."

Let's see if they allow the nod to you all for helping with the color!

 

[alforddm]

Animal that utterly stumped me was chickens. :lol:

Chickens are tough. They have all kinds of linkages and "darkeners" and "lighteners". You can get two chickens that physically look the same but have different genotypes. Not to mention all the sex linked stuff.

 

[PSFAngoras]

Well, she was bred after all!

I don't know if father was the lion head buck or her brother, guess I'll find out when they mature and whether they have any hint of a mane or not (I thought the gene was dominant? No clue, never intended to have anything to do with those little things!)

Anywho, momma looks like she's had a more than thorough undercarraige wax with all the fur she pulled, and all 7 kits are fat and happy. One does look like a peanut, but I'm having a hard time telling if it really is a peanut or if it's just a runt, so since it's eating and seems as contented as the rest, I'll leave nature to take it's course whatever it may be.

Looks like broken black, one self black, a few broken chestnuts, one hotot looking thing, and two that are white with dark eyes, not sure if they're ermine or potentially BEW, since I have no clue about any of the background. Doesn't look like I got any like momma, but maybe i'll get one I can hold back to breed to momma to get her color.

Enough rambling for now, here's some pics!