Thinking of getting more Satins and not getting Americans

[Demamma]

I am on a waiting list for some Americans. I got a Satin Doe and Buck from a Breeder and am now rethinking Americans. I love the Satin fur. I take my Siamese satin out and hold her every evening almost. She is so soft. I love to look at her fur as I run my fingers over it. So now I am a Satin Junkie. I contacted the breeder and told him I want two more Does next month. Prefer younger as my Doe I have now is wondering if I plan I hurting her every time I hold her. She is very sweet but scared. I like the look of the American but do not want to grow to fast with my rabbits since I am getting more Satin's.
I am working on my carport turning it into a Rabbitry. My neighbor gave me a 40 ft. tarp I hung up facing the street to keep my business mine. I put the cages I made on some boards nailed to pallets. Under that I took some metal roofing I was given and slanted it under the cages. Now all mess rolls to the front of cage into some gutters I was given that lead to a bucket. My neighbor came over and could not stop laughing at my rabbit gutters. :lol: I have a severe case of Rabbitosis. The only stuff had to buy was some wire to suppliment what I salvaged, water bottles and feeders. My neighbor also said she would get me a fan to help keep my rabbits cool. Next summer I plan on setting up auto waters and misters. I am having so much fun I don't want to come into the house and it is showing.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I am so happy that you are finding such joy in your rabbits- that's how I feel, too. They are such wonderful and beautiful animals.

What a kind neighbor you have! How wonderful that she contributed the tarp to keep your bunnies safe.

Have fun getting your rabbitry set up- the housework can wait a bit! :lol:

 

[3mina]

Have fun getting your rabbitry set up- the housework can wait a bit! :lol:

What is this "housework"? :mrgreen:

Demamma, I'm glad the rabbits are everything you wanted

 

[MamaSheepdog]

What is this "housework"?

Lol... my little indentured house servants are cleaning the house right now. I'm glad Colliepup is only 10- he has eight years before his "sentence" is over! :twisted:

 

[3mina]

I have a stay at home hubby so I don't do much since he feels that since I'm working he does the cleaning, the laundry and the cooking.
I have the best husband ever

 

[SatinsRule]

So now I am a Satin Junkie.

There are a lot worse things you could do. Satins are the very pinnacle of the rabbit world, if you were to ask me. Everything else amounts to jealousy run amock. illowfight:

 

[3mina]

Only slightly biased, right SatinsRule?

 

[Demamma]

The Breeder asked me what color of Satin's I wanted and I said I don't know pick me some nice ones. So I will be getting surprise Satins. What fun. I worked most the day outside and am exhausted. Tomorrow I will be hanging another tarp and setting up fans. Should I just have the fans circulate air or let them blow on the rabbits? I moved them from under a tree where there was a nice breeze to the carport where it is more sheltered but hotter. It sprinkled a little the other day so wanted to get them under cover. I will have their ice bottles in with them Tomorrow as I noticed they were hot today.

 

[SatinsRule]

Only slightly biased, right SatinsRule?

With a name like SatinsRule, did anyone really expect that I'd come on here and say anything else? LOL!!!

The Breeder asked me what color of Satin's I wanted and I said I don't know pick me some nice ones. So I will be getting surprise Satins. What fun. I worked most the day outside and am exhausted. Tomorrow I will be hanging another tarp and setting up fans. Should I just have the fans circulate air or let them blow on the rabbits? I moved them from under a tree where there was a nice breeze to the carport where it is more sheltered but hotter. It sprinkled a little the other day so wanted to get them under cover. I will have their ice bottles in with them Tomorrow as I noticed they were hot today.

"Surprise Satins" can be a tricky thing to deal with. Siamese with blue tints, reds with copper smut or white (as opposed to cream red) bellies, eye color and toenail color dilemnas, the list could go on and on. Be careful with what you take on. It can turn into quite a wild ride if you're not careful.

 

[Demamma]

The Breeder I am getting them from is a Judge. I got my Satin Buck and Doe from him and trust his judgement. He looked at some American bucks for me at a show he went to and said none were up to standard. I am going to have to learn about Satins. A lot harder than simple New Zealands whites.

 

[Cindi Davis]

ryLOL I am rethinking the Flemish line as well Even though I will keep Justice just cuz I like him alot. But Im looking more into the New Zealands for production showing and all that. But I want a colored NZ

 

[SatinsRule]

The Breeder I am getting them from is a Judge. I got my Satin Buck and Doe from him and trust his judgement. He looked at some American bucks for me at a show he went to and said none were up to standard. I am going to have to learn about Satins. A lot harder than simple New Zealands whites.

Not necessarily harder than NZW's, but more challenging for sure.

Even so, get familiar with the standard for whatever variety you're getting into and ask alot of questions. Even "experienced" judges miss alot of no-brainer calls on some of the varieties, and much of it has to do with simple calls on color faults and DQ's, areas which they routinely try and give a disproportional amount of points to in their final scoring.

 

[Cindi Davis]

Well I think that now after going to my fist show it gave me a better idea on what I need to do for what my plans are. Regardless of the breed they are all fun.

 

[3mina]

That they are

 

[Demamma]

I did some reading on the Satin colors and boy was that getting confusing. :thinking: I have a Blue broken buck and a Siamese doe now. I think I should get some solid colors in here. He did have a pretty white satin. :bunny5: Maybe that one would be a good one to add. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[SatinsRule]

I did some reading on the Satin colors and boy was that getting confusing. :thinking: I have a Blue broken buck and a Siamese doe now. I think I should get some solid colors in here. He did have a pretty white satin. :bunny5: Maybe that one would be a good one to add. Any advice would be appreciated.

I wouldn't get near that Siamese doe with that broken blue buck. They're both beautiful varieties, but getting rid of a strain of Siamese with anything resembling Blue is like pulling teeth. It takes forever to work it out of your bloodlines, and more than a few breeders who have tried it and failed, wound up started over with new brood rabbits.

Also, with whites, ask to see a pedigree for any of them he or she shows you. Whites that come from broken backgrounds can be a bit of a hassle at times. Best advice I could offer if you do go that route is to stick strictly with whites when breeding with one from a broken satin lineage.

Many newbies become enamoured with reds the first time they see them, and for good reason. I'm biased toward Satins to begin with, but IMHO Red Satins are the most beautiful red rabbits in the rabbit world, period. They have one huge downfall, though. There is literally nothing else in the breed which you can breed them to without creating a huge culling headache for yourself. Trust me when I tell you that anyone who ever wins either BOB or BOS with one in a competitive show has really done something because they had to work their butt off to get there, and they deserve your admiration and respect as a breeder when it happens.

There are basically 4 varieties which are consistently competitive in the Satin breed: Whites, Blacks, Brokens, and Blues. Most breeders who wish to remain consistently competitive in the breed will raise one or more of those colors because they're easier to work with in terms of other varieties.

A solid-bodied, well-colored blue is a tough rabbit to beat all the way up the line, mainly because their fur texture is normally heads and shoulders above everything else on the table.

Blacks are tough to compete with because the coloration on their coat shows sheen probably better than any other variety.

Whites have the advantage of body type, but it comes and goes in waves as breeders occasionally work in New Zealand whites in order to improve body type.

Brokens are arguably the easiest of the four to get right because there are so many varieties which can be used to improve them, but they have a pitfall in that eye color must match that of the variety which their pelt lends to.

You'll also see alot of breeders putting Siamese and Chinchillas on show tables, while certain other varieties like Coppers, Reds, Chocolates, and Otters you won't see quite as many of.

Cal Satins are very regional in where they are shown. Most Satin breeders in the warmer climates won't raise them because their point color only reveals itself well in colder climates, while you will find them well represented and competitive with anything in the showroom in those colder climates. Most of the Cals I am working with right now came from a young breeder in Wisconsin, and his rabbits are competitive with anyone, anywhere in the country. He just moved up to the adult division a little over a year ago, and I gotta believe that most of the youth breeders he was showing against were glad to see him move up. He's that competitive.

 

[skysthelimit]

I wouldn't get near that Siamese doe with that broken blue buck. They're both beautiful varieties, but getting rid of a strain of Siamese with anything resembling Blue is like pulling teeth. It takes forever to work it out of your bloodlines, and more than a few breeders who have tried it and failed, wound up started over with new brood rabbits.

Also, with whites, ask to see a pedigree for any of them he or she shows you. Whites that come from broken backgrounds can be a bit of a hassle at times. Best advice I could offer if you do go that route is to stick strictly with whites when breeding with one from a broken satin lineage.

I'm biased toward Satins to begin with, but IMHO Red Satins are the most beautiful red rabbits in the rabbit world, period. They have one huge downfall, though. There is literally nothing else in the breed which you can breed them to without creating a huge culling headache for yourself.

There are basically 4 varieties which are consistently competitive in the Satin breed: Whites, Blacks, Brokens, and Blues. Most breeders who wish to remain consistently competitive in the breed will raise one or more of those colors because they're easier to work with in terms of other varieties.

A solid-bodied, well-colored blue is a tough rabbit to beat all the way up the line, mainly because their fur texture is normally heads and shoulders above everything else on the table.

Blacks are tough to compete with because the coloration on their coat shows sheen probably better than any other variety.

Whites have the advantage of body type, but it comes and goes in waves as breeders occasionally work in New Zealand whites in order to improve body type.

Brokens are arguably the easiest of the four to get right because there are so many varieties which can be used to improve them, but they have a pitfall in that eye color must match that of the variety which their pelt lends to.

You'll also see alot of breeders putting Siamese and Chinchillas on show tables, while certain other varieties like Coppers, Reds, Chocolates, and Otters you won't see quite as many of.

Cal Satins are very regional in where they are shown. Most Satin breeders in the warmer climates won't raise them because their point color only reveals itself well in colder climates, while you will find them well represented and competitive with anything in the showroom in those colder climates. Most of the Cals I am working with right now came from a young breeder in Wisconsin, and his rabbits are competitive with anyone, anywhere in the country. He just moved up to the adult division a little over a year ago, and I gotta believe that most of the youth breeders he was showing against were glad to see him move up. He's that competitive.

I was hoping you would say something. Blue and Siamese just don't mix if you want to show. I love Red, but as you said, even in Rexes, you will not get what you want unless you've got a pair.

The same four colors you said go for many breeds as well. The solids are easier to get the color right, and brokens hide several faults you might see on a solid rabbit.

Agoutis are a pain. I am supposed to get a pair of Chin satins. I will see how it goes.

 

[Demamma]

I did not see any Siamese satin bucks at the breeders. Should I then just keep eyes open for a Siamese buck? I think I will probably end up with a broken doe as I saw he had a lot of those. Is a white satin compatible with a broken? I do not plan on showing but the kids might in the future with the satins. The Siamese satin is just a rabbit that I love. Cant put my finger on why though.

 

[SatinsRule]

I did not see any Siamese satin bucks at the breeders. Should I then just keep eyes open for a Siamese buck? I think I will probably end up with a broken doe as I saw he had a lot of those. Is a white satin compatible with a broken? I do not plan on showing but the kids might in the future with the satins. The Siamese satin is just a rabbit that I love. Cant put my finger on why though.

For that Siamese, find a competitive Siamese breeder and buy your brood buck from them. It is paramount that you select a rabbit with solid body type, but it's also (and perhaps equally) important with that variety to select one that has no color issues. As I indicated earlier, reading that SOP will reveal that you're going to get some major culling issues if you bring any blue colorations into your lines.

A white satin is compatible with brokens, but depending upon its background, you could wind up diluting the color on it a bit too much, especially if there is alot of white background on both rabbits. There is a 10% minimum and a 50% maximum of coloration on the pelt required for being able to show it. With a broken, you're usually better off either breeding it to a similar colored broken, or to a similar colored solid, but alot of that lends to how much broken coloration you have on the pelts of your breeders, as well as how much white is there. Most of the time, it becomes a balancing act, as you really don't want too much of either a solid or white in its background. I found myself at that crossroads with a broken doe I have this past spring. She had barely the minimum 10% pelt coloration, and although from a type standpoint she would have been a good match for one of my white bucks, I chose instead to breed her to a solid blue I picked up early this year. I wound up getting 2 solid blues and a broken buck, the latter of which is sitting at about 50% coloration. I got lucky in that all 3 were very nice rabbits without DQ issues.

Here's a suggestion for your brokens. Lets say that you have a broken black doe. Pay attention to the classes at the next show and look for a rabbit in the black buck classes which is being DQ'd for a toenail abnormality, but has really good type (it's normally the way it plays itself out, trust me on this one). Offer to buy that rabbit from its breeder. If they agree to sell it, you'll normally have an appropriate breeder for your brokens, as that toenail issue usually starts from a breeding somewhere along the way with a white, or with a broken which had a bit too much white in its genetic background.

I was hoping you would say something. Blue and Siamese just don't mix if you want to show. I love Red, but as you said, even in Rexes, you will not get what you want unless you've got a pair.

The same four colors you said go for many breeds as well. The solids are easier to get the color right, and brokens hide several faults you might see on a solid rabbit.

Agoutis are a pain. I am supposed to get a pair of Chin satins. I will see how it goes.

Chins have a white gene, and that is why you will find a lot of chin breeders periodically using whites to strengthen any type issues. While they're compatible, toenail issues are a major source of aggravation in their crossings with whites, and I've gotta believe it could have a negative effect on ring color. I've never owned a chin satin in my life, but came very close to making an offer on a very nice broken chin a year ago. What stopped me? It was another variety which I didn't feel compelled to bring on board. It might have been pretty cool, but who knows? It could also have turned into a nightmare for me, too.

 

[skysthelimit]

Chins have a white gene, and that is why you will find a lot of chin breeders periodically using whites to strengthen any type issues. While they're compatible, toenail issues are a major source of aggravation in their crossings with whites, and I've gotta believe it could have a negative effect on ring color. I've never owned a chin satin in my life, but came very close to making an offer on a very nice broken chin a year ago. What stopped me? It was another variety which I didn't feel compelled to bring on board. It might have been pretty cool, but who knows? It could also have turned into a nightmare for me, too.

I have Chin Rexes and my biggest source of aggravation was needing to have a pair, and adding yet another buck. I did breed her to a white, but a white from a castor, and I wound up with a red cast on the kits, and a dingy white.