Then there were 7

[ColdBrook]

I am a brand new to rabbits and just had the first litter born, 8 healthy hoppy popples one week ago tonight. They all seemed to be thriving but this morning I found one in the nesting box, away from all the rest, chilly and looking like he/she missed a feeding, kinda scrawny and not moving very much. I burrowed the bunny back into the middle of the rest where it was nice and warm and hoped that Ella, my NZW doe, would get in there to feed again soon and that this poor little lost mite would get to to belly up to the milkbar soon.

I just went up to check on them and that one was dead . The rest are all wriggling and warm and fat. I removed that little one and buried him. Was there something else I should have done when I found him by himself in the nest? I don't want this to happen again! Where did we go wrong?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Sorry you lost the kit.

You didn't do anything wrong- sometimes this just happens. I suffer the most losses in the first few days, but I recently found an older kit (maybe 3 weeks?) that was dead for no apparent reason.

 

[trinityoaks]

One thing you can do is to warm it up (tuck it inside your shirt and "wear" it around for a little while), then make sure it has a full tummy (it will look as though it swallowed a grape). If not, bring it to mama to feed. You may have to hold the doe upside down on your lap and hold the kit there while it nurses.

 

[mystang89]

Sorry for the loss. There are a couple of good posts on here that might help prevent that from happening again.
1.) I thought this would help. It's about helping to unthaw a cold kit since its getting that time of the year.http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/05/some_tips_and_tricks_on_raisin.html
2.) This tells how to get the kit to eat off the mom if the kit is starved.http://rabbittalk.com/fed-vs-unfed-kit-pictures-t3052-15.html from AnnClaire.

Hope it helps.

 

[Demamma]

My NZ doe had a litter of 9. One of the kit's was a runt and looked like a skeleton. I went and pulled my satin doe who has a older litter of three to let it nurse then fostered it to a mix doe with kits the same age. The mixed doe had 6 kits but is a great mother. Checked today and the runt is looking nice with round little belly. I thought for sure he was not going to make it. Things happen with kits I was lucky.

 

[ColdBrook]

Thanks for the replies and for those links. I'd seen the one when I was researching before I got the rabbits but forgot to bookmark it. When reading it, I had a horrible thought...what if that kit wasn't dead and was only "mostly dead" and I buried him? Ugh, I would really hope that wasn't the case. I checked him over thoroughly and saw no signs at all of life. The weather here is a bit crazy. Tomorrow the high is 78, and on Sunday the high is 40. I hope we can keep everyone healthy with temperatures fluctuating like that.

 

[ZRabbits]

So sorry to hear about the loss. Definitely been weird weather with such fluctuation. Have you considered maybe bringing the kits in at night and then bringing them out to Mom when it's feeding time? Hoping all continues to go well.

Karen

 

[ColdBrook]

If I bring the kits in overnight when it drops down in the 30s, do I take the whole nesting box out and if I do, will it create any rejection problems when I take it back to her in the morning? Should I remove them when they're a week old, have some fur and are in the barn protected from drafts and in a nesting box that has pine shavings, then plenty of straw and lots of her fur? Now I've been reading that straw is bad and I should have used grass hay but I'll do that next time. I hate to change things around too much and shock the mama or babies. As long as everyone seems to be thriving I'll just tiptoe through this first litter and hopefully do things perfectly right (if there is such a thing!) with the next one.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The kits should be fine staying outside in their warm nest, but if you do bring them in at night and back out to nurse it wont cause the doe to reject them. I have about six litters now and it was 38 at 7:30 this morning, and I leave my nests outside.

I have used straw, alfalfa, bermuda grass, and wild grasses as nesting material and have never had problems with any of them. I like the grass hay best because it is softer and bends easily.

You can replace the nesting material if you want. A lot of people do a thorough cleaning of the nest at nine days to prevent "nestbox eye", replacing the bedding and only keeping the fur blanket from the original nest. I usually don't do the nine day cleanout, but I add pine pellets to my nests which absorb urine, and that seems to keep it clean enough. Wood is anti-bacterial so that may be a factor.

Don't be afraid to handle the kits daily. It will make for calm, sweet bunnies, and is a good time to check them over. Give your doe some yummy treats when you remove the nest and she will see it as a good thing and wont be too upset about it.

 

[AnnClaire]

ColdBrook, get in there and handle the kits and deal with the mother as you want to deal with all of them in the future. She will get used to you handling her kits, or she won't. A very protective mother is a GOOD thing as it will take a very determined predator to get past her to the kits, so a little snarkiness can be tolerated. (Lunging at you as if she is going to bite, etc LOL)

The kits will be used to handling but you might still have one or two that are little spazzes <sigh>

As for the one that died, obviously something genetically was wrong with it and it probably would never have done well. It is sad to lose them that young, but in the long run, nature knows best. If it had just been because that one was latched on to mom when she left the nest box, it would have made it's way back to the pile of kits and warmth.

As for nesting material, I am sure the doe chopped the straw up and made a nice nest with it and then lined it with the SOFT, WARM, FUR she pulled LOL So, what you offered in the way of nesting materials was perfectly acceptable to her If you really want to, offer her a bit of all of it next time and see what she picks then go with that.

As for the temps, think about how warm the pile of fur is when you put your hand in there ... those kits are good to go down to the 20s as long as they are protected from drafts and rain/snow ... which you have them in a barn, so they are just fine and I wouldn't even worry about them below 20F for an outside temp.

If you are really worried, drape the cages with a tarp at night, or a piece of heavy plastic and the buns will generate something like 1.5 BTU of warmth each and it will keep the water crocks from freezing solid. I have mine outside in NW OK with a wind break/top cover and use a piece of 6mil clear plastic over the front to keep the rain/snow off and the warmth in. Last winter there were only 2 or 3 mornings when the rabbits had drunk all the liquid water in their crocks, but all of them had a drinking hole in the ice that formed.

Oh, and BTW, nature provided them with a really warm, soft fur coat and you will find that the rabbits are more active and happier in the cold weather :bouncy:

 

[ZRabbits]

If I bring the kits in overnight when it drops down in the 30s, do I take the whole nesting box out and if I do, will it create any rejection problems when I take it back to her in the morning? Should I remove them when they're a week old, have some fur and are in the barn protected from drafts and in a nesting box that has pine shavings, then plenty of straw and lots of her fur? Now I've been reading that straw is bad and I should have used grass hay but I'll do that next time. I hate to change things around too much and shock the mama or babies. As long as everyone seems to be thriving I'll just tiptoe through this first litter and hopefully do things perfectly right (if there is such a thing!) with the next one.

MamaSheepDog and AnneClaire has some excellent advise for you regarding the cold and kits. I read many threads here and on other forums of breeders who remove the nestbox and bring the kits back for Mom to feed, and the doe didn't reject them.

I had my first litter at the beginning of October (but my rabbits are inside) and was nervous as well. Worried that I wasn't doing everything just right. Or doing something that would make my doe abandon her kits. They are now 3 weeks old and my "stumbling through my first litter" did nothing to harm them or the doe.

Don't tiptoe through this first experience but get involved. I've handled my kits from Day One. Changed the nest box way before 9 days and all went well. And their is no Perfect way. You just have to find your way that's best for your does.

Look forward to hearing an update on the 7.

Karen

 

[ColdBrook]

Thank you all for the great advice. Mama Ella is wonderful, and if I give her a small handful of greens, sits happily beside the nesting box muching them while I pick up the kits and check them over once a day now. I'll change out the nesting box material tonight but make sure I put in all the fur she pulled and as much of the clean soft stuff as we have one last nice day before it drops to the uncomfortable temps.

Here is a picture collage showing a couple of the kits. Do they look healthy and normal to you all!?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Thanks for the replies and for those links. I'd seen the one when I was researching before I got the rabbits but forgot to bookmark it. When reading it, I had a horrible thought...what if that kit wasn't dead and was only "mostly dead" and I buried him? Ugh, I would really hope that wasn't the case. I checked him over thoroughly and saw no signs at all of life. The weather here is a bit crazy. Tomorrow the high is 78, and on Sunday the high is 40. I hope we can keep everyone healthy with temperatures fluctuating like that.

Coldbrook, don't beat yourself up about it. Even with the best possible care, kits die. Likely there was nothing you could have done to prevent it. You will be better prepared for it the next time you see a kit that is struggling.<br /><br />__________ Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:29 pm __________<br /><br />

Thank you all for the great advice. Mama Ella is wonderful, and if I give her a small handful of greens, sits happily beside the nesting box muching them while I pick up the kits and check them over once a day now. I'll change out the nesting box material tonight but make sure I put in all the fur she pulled and as much of the clean soft stuff as we have one last nice day before it drops to the uncomfortable temps.

Here is a picture collage showing a couple of the kits. Do they look healthy and normal to you all!?

And yes, those kits look perfectly normal and healthy to me! What cute popples you have!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

They look great to me. They are all adorable, especially the "wed" one!

 

[ColdBrook]

I know! I wuv the "wed" one too and if it's a girl, plan to name her "Rose", if a boy, "Alf-Red" after this poem/poet:

The New Duckling
'I want to be new,' said the duckling.
'O ho!' said the wise old owl,
While the guinea-hen cluttered off chuckling
To tell all the rest of the fowl.

'I should like a more elegant figure,'
That child of a duck went on.
'I should like to grow bigger and bigger,
Until I could swallow a swan.

'I won't be the bond slave of habit,
I won't have these webs on my toes.
I want to run round like a rabbit,
A rabbit as red as a rose.

'I don't want to waddle like mother,
Or quack like my silly old dad.
I want to be utterly other,
And frightfully modern and mad.'

'Do you know,' said the turkey, 'you're quacking!
There's a fox creeping up thro' the rye;
And, if you're not utterly lacking,
You'll make for that duck-pond. Good-bye!'

But the duckling was perky as perky.
'Take care of your stuffing!' he called.
(This was horribly rude to a turkey!)
'But you aren't a real turkey,' he bawled.

'You're an Early-Victorian Sparrow!
A fox is more fun than a sheep!
I shall show that my mind is not narrow
And give him my feathers--to keep.'

Now the curious end of this fable,
So far as the rest ascertained,
Though they searched from the barn to the stable,
Was that only his feathers remained.

So he wasn't the bond slave of habit,
And he didn't have webs on his toes;
And perhaps he runs round like a rabbit,
A rabbit as red as a rose.

Alfred Noyes.

 

[mystang89]

Neat little poem.

 

[faiththequeen]

They're beautiful!!!! And they look great!

P.S. LOVE your name

 

[garden lady]

I am glad they could save him. My dad used to make sure nothing cloth was left around the dogs. Another bad thing is foam. It does not wrap like string and do the same, but they will eat it. He had a friend that had a very expesive greyhound. He wanted it to be safe or warm, not sure, but she was in the house and slept in a chair. He went to church and when he got home she was dead. She had ate the foam cushion in the chair.