Strange lump on kit

[bikegurl]

There is another one with problems. It has lumpyness on its shoulders, is definitely smaller than the others, and seems to struggle to use its front left leg. (the same leg the first kit has trouble with) I was hoping it was a one-off problem with just that kit, but there seems to be bigger problems instead! :?

 

[katiebear]

I'm going to go out on a limb here..you said in your other thread that your buck is blowing snot..well I think the two may be related. I will do some looking..maybe others will too. I don't want to jump to conclusions but....
I don't know how many members will see this but I hope we can figure this out.

 

[Susie570]

Yikes... I didn't make the connection. Certainly could be related.

White snot means some kind of infection, most of which are contagious. The lumps might be part of a systemic infection. I'm not sure what you're dealing with, but brace yourself. Did you autopsy the other kit?

 

[katiebear]

Bikegurl, I think you need to do some research on the illness and injury section of the forum. I don't know how to post links..but I believe you are dealing with pasteuerlla.. I hope I am wrong.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

:yeahthat:

I had a house rabbit may years ago that developed a Pasteurella abscess inside of her eye. I took her to the vet, and according to her, "P" can be introduced into the body by open wounds.

If your buck has Pasteurella and blew snot into the doe's cage, and she stepped in it, and then subsequently scratched her kits- this may be systemic Pasteurella.

Hopefully we are all wrong, but it is a possibility.

Sorry that you have another kit affected.

 

[ladysown]

i suspect pasturella as well.. spongy round growths...kits get them... not good. Just cull.

 

[bikegurl]

Ok thanks for the feedback! Though the news is depressing.
It is most likely pasturella. Wow. That stinks!
Is it ok to wait and see for the rest of the litter (and the other doe's litter) or are they all likely infected? If the rest grow nicely and stay lump-free, are they safe to eat? What about the does and buck? One of the does may have been sneezing the other day. :angry: Can I cull a pasturella infected animal and eat it? It sounds like a bad idea, but I figured I could ask...
Thanks so much for the feedback! You all are so helpful!

 

[Zass]

I've eaten sneezy rabbits before.
So long as there isn't any pus or discoloration in the meat, just cook it well.

I think you should cull the kits with lumps and have a look at them before deciding what to do though.

Most rabbits have been exposed to at least one strain of pasteurella, but their immune system keeps it in check.
So if you have litter mates with absolutely no symptoms, those are the ones you can consider for future brood stock.

 

[bikegurl]

Okay, so I finally culled the two kits, and autopsied them. (At least, I looked at the lumps and the guts) The lumps were of various sizes; some were firm, some were soft, and they were filled with ricotta cheese-like stuff. The liver was a little pale. The lungs seemed pretty normal. I took some pictures, but my camera acted up and wouldn't focus... :angry: I'll post a couple anyway...in case they are a tiny bit helpful in their blurry state.

 

[Zass]

:shock:
That's awful looking.

The cheesy stuff is puss, and I'm going to have to agree with the others, since there is a sneezing rabbit in your herd, it may very well be from a systemic pasteurella infection, or an infected wound. Perhaps from the doe's nails.


If it's any consolation as you move forward with rabbits, that kind of infection is rather uncommon. I've never seen it in my own herd. What I'm trying to say, is that it isn't something routine that we all deal with. I'm sorry your starter rabbits had this going on.

Sneezing IS fairly common however, but strict quarantine and ruthless culling seems to help keep most herds fit.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

When I try to view the images, I get "Secure Connection Failed". Anyone here able to copy the pics and post them directly into the thread?

Bikegurl, did you find any infected lesions in the body cavity itself, or were they all subcutaneous?

If none were inside the body, it may just be that they were infected injuries. If there were more inside of them, though, I would definitely say that it is systemic "P".

 

[bikegurl]

When I try to view the images, I get "Secure Connection Failed". Anyone here able to copy the pics and post them directly into the thread?

Bikegurl, did you find any infected lesions in the body cavity itself, or were they all subcutaneous?

If none were inside the body, it may just be that they were infected injuries. If there were more inside of them, though, I would definitely say that it is systemic "P".

I couldn't figure out how to post directly into the thread...
There were no lesions in the body cavity. The one kit had a whitish stomach, but the I realised it was still nursing!

 

[Zass]

Here they are MSD.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Here they are MSD.

Thanks, Zass.

Holy cow, Bikegurl! Thank heavens you decided to cull! That is awful. Poor little things.

That seems way too extensive to be an infected injury. I'm afraid that you probably are dealing with systemic Pasteurella. I am so sorry.

Is there any way that you can just cull all of the rabbits and start over? It will save you a lot of future heartache.

If you do decide on that course, you can still use your current equipment. Pasteurella is very fragile outside of the host animal and can only survive about 24 hours. Do clean everything thoroughly, of course, just to be safe.

The one kit had a whitish stomach, but the I realised it was still nursing!

Yeah, that worried me the first time I saw it too. What a "Duh!" :slap: moment. :roll:

I couldn't figure out how to post directly into the thread...

That's okay. You should have seen me flailing around in the forum when I first found it.

We have a couple of tutorials that might help you figure out how to post photos:

attachment-tutorial-t5.html

picture-tutorial-t6003.html

 

[bikegurl]

I killed the buck today. He had a lot of fat inside the body cavity, but no abcesses anywhere. His liver looked fine, but his lungs had red patches in them. Is that a sign of Pasteurella?

Both does have litters, one 3 weeks old and one 1 week old. I think I will wait to cull them until they grow out their litters. I will just cull kits if they appear diseased. I thoroughly inspected the remaining kits in the 3-week-old litter, and could find no more abcesses. Neither does appear to be sick...I haven't noticed any sneezing, wet noses or crusty front paws.

Thanks for the support!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I killed the buck today.

I'm sorry. ((Hugs!))

his lungs had red patches in them. Is that a sign of Pasteurella?

It is a sign of respiratory disease, but not necessarily Pasteurella. Could be bordatella, pneumonia, etc.

Both does have litters, one 3 weeks old and one 1 week old. I think I will wait to cull them until they grow out their litters.

You don't necessarily have to cull them. Just watch for any symptoms.

Thanks for the support!

That's what we are here for. Plus rejoicing in good news, too.

 

[katiebear]

You don't necessarily have to cull them. Just watch for any symptoms.

It is a sign of respiratory disease, but not necessarily Pasteurella. Could be bordatella, pneumonia, etc.

I agree with mamasheepdog on this..take a wait and see approach..Keep a close eye on the kits, I can't help but think that whatever those lumps were was inherited,any that don't show the infection may be the beginnings of a resistant heard..
You said that the does didn't show any signs..so they could already be resistant to whatever that was in your buck..They came from the same people so they must have been housed in fairly close proximity.
The buck blew snot but the does don't..That could be a good sign..Don't bring in new stock until this plays out though..
Please keep us up to date on what ever you decide to do..We are here for you and will only give you the same advice we would follow ourselves...Welcome to the family and I am so sorry that you are experiencing the hard side of rabbit raising,so soon in your adventure..

 

[ladysown]

you could choose to cull OR do what most breeders do.

You keep what seems healthy and cull everything else. Some rabbits seem to be able to fight off the pasturella bug, or at least never become symptomatic. You can stress your kits by moving them to a new cage, getting them away from mom for an hour or two, car rides and what not. Light stress when they are young and see how they cope with it.

Stress is what generally being pasturella symptoms to the foreground and therefore lightly stressing the kits will tell you a lot about their overall health.

 

[bikegurl]

The gold tipped steel doe with the 2 week old litter has been sneezing and all the kits have wet noses.

Thankfully the SF and the remaining 7 in her litter still seem to be okay still. They are growing well, have dry noses, and I haven't noticed any sneezing.

Is a month or two long enough to wait before allowing mingling (well, just breeding) with clean rabbits if I see no symptoms? Would it be safer to wait longer? Any suggestions on ways to stress the doe to see if that brings out pasteurella symptoms?

 

[Zass]

The gold tipped steel doe with the 2 week old litter has been sneezing and all the kits have wet noses.

Thankfully the SF and the remaining 7 in her litter still seem to be okay still. They are growing well, have dry noses, and I haven't noticed any sneezing.

Is a month or two long enough to wait before allowing mingling (well, just breeding) with clean rabbits if I see no symptoms? Would it be safer to wait longer? Any suggestions on ways to stress the doe to see if that brings out pasteurella symptoms?

30 day quarantine is standard.
You will want to quarantine the new clean rabbits for thirty days too. To protect your rabbits.
Just in case the new rabbits have something that the breeder is unaware of. Because the stress of a move can weaken their immune system and bring all sorts of latent illnesses to the surface.