Still on mixed feed and still loosing them!

[akane]

I'm guessing people just don't want to get that exact and there isn't a need. 1/2 teaspoon per gallon is listed for preventative 21 day dosing and 1 teaspoon for 5 day treatment. On the corid company site and pretty much everywhere else. No one seems to use a special dose per species of animal. The same dosage is being used for chickens and goats as well. You can find the math breakdown for every amprolium product in several places on BYC. Amprolium use is much more common in poultry. Although I always raised mine on nonmedicated gamebird starter for all age groups and never saw a cocci problem.

 

[GBov]

I hate to medicate animals that look healthy but I have now lost 6 in my main barn - three each from two litters, one litter 3 weeks old and the other 14 weeks old - and I am gutted.

Should I treat the entire barn?

 

[skysthelimit]

If this is Cocci, like the rampant Corrid resistant cocci that hit so many people hard last fall, that I lost over 90 kits from, then yes treat your whole barn, and you may have to do so next spring as well.

Corrid did nothing for me, so I used medicated calf replacer and Sulmet. I managed to save the last batch of Rex last year by feeding them the milk replacer.


Or the Sulfa drug in those reptile blocks.

I lost a few kits this year, but nothing like last year, and it only started when I began feeding forage from the property, weeds that were outside the veggie gardens, most likely contaminated by the soil.

Best wishes and keep hope. <br /><br /> -- Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:48 am -- <br /><br /> And bleach everything.

 

[GBov]

And bleach everything.

You sound like my mum! :lol:

We both use bleach, hydrogen peroxide or white vinegar to clean just about everything every thing.

So far losses have stopped after starting the course of treatment for the entire barn but loosing half of my first ever Rex litter was a gut blow. And my New Zealands seem to not respond very fast - or not at all - to the corid.

My saving grace has been that almost all the cages hang so new cases have ONLY been in cages with supporting braces underneath.

Being on oats only however is costing the new Rex body condition, they are all loosing weight so when can I start introducing pellets again?

 

[squidpop]

Incase it helps, I found this...

Common antibiotics used to treat coccidia include Albon (sulfadimethoxine) and the potentiated sulfas, such as Trimethoprim Sulfa (TMZ) or Bactrim. However, we have found a more recently developed drug, ponazuril to be far superior to the aforementioned sulfa antibiotics. It eliminates the parasites in a matter of days, rather than weeks. http://rabbit.org/the-mystery-of-rabbit-poop/

So if cocci is become immune to older drugs, maybe newer drug, Ponazuril might be a good course of action. I know its more expensive but sounds like it might have a better success rate and works faster.

I also found out the cheaper route for Ponazuril might be Baycox toltrazuril, (the active ingredient in Ponazuril is toltrazuril so close to the same thing), which can perhaps be bought here for cheaper. http://horseprerace.com/toltrazuril(Com ... ycox%C2%AE)/toltrazuril-for-epm-200ml/
or here for cheaper: http://www.allthingsbunnies.com/product-p/med132.htm

P.S. The toltrazuril is also supposed to be good for treating E.C. (head tilt) especially if panacur has not worked.

 

[skysthelimit]

And bleach everything.

You sound like my mum! :lol:

We both use bleach, hydrogen peroxide or white vinegar to clean just about everything every thing.

So far losses have stopped after starting the course of treatment for the entire barn but loosing half of my first ever Rex litter was a gut blow. And my New Zealands seem to not respond very fast - or not at all - to the corid.

My saving grace has been that almost all the cages hang so new cases have ONLY been in cages with supporting braces underneath.

Being on oats only however is costing the new Rex body condition, they are all loosing weight so when can I start introducing pellets again?

I wonder if adding BOSS or Alfalfa hay would be ok?
I gave mine that electrolyte solution from TSP and the milk replacer, which the kits happily ate in powdered form, mixed with the oats, and a bit of molasses.

 

[michaels4gardens]

maybe I am just terribly lucky, but my "medication" of last resort for coccidiosis [for chickens, and rabbits] has been Garlic tops, or garlic chives, It has never failed me...

 

[GBov]

I have given garlic chives but no one will eat them and have lost another kit, this time from a different litter.

It HAS to be cocci. as Corid has stopped the deaths in all the older kits and adult rabbits but the very young are still getting sick and dieing.

Have looked up the Toltrazuril and am going to order a bottle today. As the first batch of rabbits are on their second course of Corid and the second batch starts their second course in three days, do I switch them all to the Toltrazuril and stop the Corid entirely or finish out the course of Corid and THEN give Toltrazuril?

And if its NOT cocci, what else could it be? The guts are hugely swollen, black and purple and red, with greenish blackish staining in the flesh of the belly and even into the hide itself. I should have looked inside of the kit today but was so heartsick I just gave it to the woods but the one looking so very poorly right now shall be opened up and looked inside of later today.

 

[skysthelimit]

Good question.

Mine won't eat the garlic either. I don't really know if it's cocci either, I can't afford a necropsy and I have't seen any proof of it in the organs...

 

[GBov]

I have told all the buns that in a couple of weeks they can have Spanish Needle again. Its really good for their insides.

So far so good today, no new losses and a litter born to one of the new rabbits. She is a Florida White the breeder gave my daughter to show in the fair. I don't know how much hope there is for them but hopefully they live.

 

[squidpop]

Because I keep reading such great reviews about the toltrazuril for cocci, I think when you get it, you should stop the Corid and go with the Toltrazuril.

I just read a post on a goat forum and someone was asking "Does Corid Work" got the following reply....

The only product on the market that actually kills coccidia is toltrazuril (Baycox) or ponazuril (Marquis). All the other products, Corid, Di-Methox, Albon, just inhibit it and allow the goat to build an immunity to the protozoa.

and another person posted that corid is a coccistat not a coccicide, so Corid is more of a preventative medication, not really a cure.

In the Wormer & Cocci section under Corid: "Corid unlike sulfa's do not kill all lifecycles of coccidiosis."

So, I'm thinking just go with the Toltrazuril and be done with it.

...But I also would worry a little bit that if the Corid might stay in their system for another week or so after you stop giving it, and when you give the toltrazuril— would the overlapping drugs stress their systems or cause stomach upset? So, you might want try the Toltrazuril out first on one rabbit and make sure it doesn't react with the corrid in their system before giving it to the rest of the rabbits.

Here's the link to where those quotes about cocci, goats, Corid and Toltrazuril came from. http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f19/does-corid-work-treating-coccidia-34049/

-- Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:10 pm --

Also, there is a picture of a rabbit intestine showing signs of coccidiosis on this web page. http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_disease ... occ_en.htm <br /><br /> -- Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:11 pm -- <br /><br />

And if its NOT cocci, what else could it be? The guts are hugely swollen, black and purple and red, with greenish blackish staining in the flesh of the belly and even into the hide itself. I should have looked inside of the kit today but was so heartsick I just gave it to the woods but the one looking so very poorly right now shall be opened up and looked inside of later today.

With coccidiosis they say there can be white spots on the intestines like this photo.... but the white spots only show up for a few days and only in massive infections so if you don't see any white spots it doesn't really rule out cocci. http://www.fao.org/docrep/t1690e/t1690e07.htm

Another bacteria called clostridia causes symptoms that sound more similar to what you described— greenish viscera- so internal organs turn greenish, and corpses blow up so "swollen"...

Clostridium spiroforme has often been described in rabbits in recent years. This type of enteritis is common, mostly in well-fed animals (perhaps due to excess protein?). Both young and breeding animals may be affected. The diarrhoea is often very liquid and characteristically quick to putrefy. The corpses are blown up and the autopsy reveals greenish viscera. Treatment aimed specifically at anaerobic bacteria can be effective (Dimetridazol, Tetracycline + Imidazol, etc.). ...Clostridia are hardly ever isolated in growing rabbits after weaning. Perhaps this is partly because these are anaerobic germs which require a battery of special techniques for isolation and identification. http://www.fao.org/docrep/t1690e/t1690e07.htm

The site mentioned above also has some good information about other bugs like e. coli. that can cause problems so might help you.

 

[skysthelimit]

Fascinating.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Corid is pretty forgiving , but getting it in them ASAP is critical . [for obviously sick animals I use the syringe PO ]- Cocci is a time bomb - it can sit in the rabbit [or other animal] and the animal looks normal, then some stress happens, it flares up and they suddenly become ill, I have had some animals [calves especially] get sick the day after they were moved, then scours that did not respond to scours medication, so I give Corid, and the next day they are back up and looking like they will be OK, - Cocci is amazing it can happen fast and it is devastating.