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boundarybunnyco

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lost another kit today, and one is finally showing diarrhea. yesterday they looked fine. now their tummies are bloated and the one that died and the one that is probably next, finally got diarrhea. up until today, they were pooping normally. one left that is still healthy looking. I've been giving them only hay, oats, water, and probiotics. I even gave them antibiotics. One tiny tri colored doe left. I'm seriously about done raising rabbits! this was a litter of 12, and they are 2 months old now. and from what I've been told, even if this little doe lives, she shouldn't be bred, as she will likely pass this trait on to her kits ... is this right?
 
I am so sorry! At least now there is a symptom. Is it possible for you to take the diarrhea in for a fecal exam to see if they can find any parasites? It sure would be nice to find out the cause if possible. My vet will do it w/out charging an office call or requiring to see the animal.

I would not recommend breeding the baby you have left if she makes it, even if parasites are the cause. I would suspect that they all had weak immune systems, since most animals balance a parasite load with no obvious ill effects.

I don't know how many other rabbits you have to work with, but if possible try a different pairing and see if you have a healthy litter that way.

I hope you don't let this terrible experience ruin rabbit keeping for you. Things can't get any worse, which means they are bound to get better! When things go well they bring you such joy. Hubs says "Don't give up! You had a bad start, but try again."
 
it's pretty depressing, they were such nice, fat, well fed little kits. and as they grew they were always bright eyed and very active. then all of a sudden they just started dying. ugh.
 
if she never shows signs of any illness I would breed her... because she's shown good immunity to the disease. and THAT"S exactly what you want. NOW... if she catches it and gets better, find her a pet home or have her for dinner.

but it mostly like was an entropathic illness...and those ones are heart breakers.

once it's all done.. treat everyone for coccidia (intestinal since you mentioned the livers were good).

Feed a decent pellet.. not too high in protein.
Add some apple cider vinegar to the water as an acidic environment helps with preventing entropathic illnesses.
Keep your growers used to getting some hay.
Don't over feed.
When I free fed it was harder to control entropathic illness, measure feeding helps. You want them slightly hungry. And yes, I know that goes against the grain but I find they grow just as quickly on measured feed as they do on free feed.

My take on it is entropathic illnesses can be controlled through breeding and the amount of feed offered. Seems counter-intuitive. OR you have the option of breeding for rabbits that handle your system of management.

Means doing some HARD culling.
Means being willing to accept bunny losses.
Means joy when you finally get rabbits that meet your expectations...and then having to revise those expectations to meet more stringent goals. :)
 
I am feeding a pellet that is 18 percent protein. is this too high for babies? it's what I've used almost all of the time, but then I did also run out of grass hay ... and the new stuff I got was a grass/alfalfa mix. maybe the combination made them sick from too much alfalfa? I'm giving the two remaining babies probiotics and grass hay, and oats. one has smelly diarrhea and one doesn't. the one with diarrhea was eating today though...
as for breeding the doe, the mother to this litter has never been sick a day in her life. the doe that was sick, was the flemish doe that fostered some of this litter. she has never been sick before either. the mama doe came to me pregnant, along with another pregnant doe who also lost all of her litter but one. so I'm afraid I may have made the flemish doe sick by fostering those kits to her so soon after her own kits were weaned...maybe over stressed her and weakened her immune system?
after the babies either recover, or die, I'm going to treat all 30 rabbits with corid.
 
Out of 10 kits I have 4 left from what sounds exactly like you have had run through your kits. It started with going off their feed not eating the hay or pellets provided and then progressed to bloated bellies, mucus diarrhea , scrunching up pulling their back feet forward, and then no poop or anything.Their eyes looked all squinty and the one that I thought might get better started looking swollen in the face. She was in such terrible agony I put her and the others down this afternoon. I opened up the one that was the worst off and the liver looked fine but the gall bladder was huge and almost black. The stomach and intestines were filled with gas and in some areas herniated . That poor rabbit must have been in so much pain. I did not hesitate to put the rest down. There was one in the cage who is still bright eyed that one is now in the quarantine . I hope she makes it but all of the rabbits tha were in the outside grow out pen got it.
I have the sole survivor on hay and kitchen oats, Terramycin water and no pellets for now.
 
there are those who say that 18% protein is too high for the kits.

I can't speak to that. I know I have my entire herd on 17% and they are doing just fine on that.

But the richness of the alfalfa and the `18% might have been more than what they are bred for.

I'd keep the one that is doing fine as it has survived the feeding regime they are on. I'd carefully put it back onto the 18% but I'd cut with oatmeal or grass hay for the first bit. OR very strictly measure feed. No more than say 1/2-3/4 cup.

as to what happened with the doe... could easily have been coincidence as well. Or ??? One can't always know. that's the problem with rabbits. :)
 
When all is said and done how should I clean the mostly wood grow out pen? I thought bleach spray and open it up with sun on it for a few days.
 
currituckbun":2hacf49u said:
Out of 10 kits I have 4 left from what sounds exactly like you have had run through your kits. It started with going off their feed not eating the hay or pellets provided and then progressed to bloated bellies, mucus diarrhea , scrunching up pulling their back feet forward, and then no poop or anything.Their eyes looked all squinty and the one that I thought might get better started looking swollen in the face. She was in such terrible agony I put her and the others down this afternoon. I opened up the one that was the worst off and the liver looked fine but the gall bladder was huge and almost black. The stomach and intestines were filled with gas and in some areas herniated . That poor rabbit must have been in so much pain. I did not hesitate to put the rest down. There was one in the cage who is still bright eyed that one is now in the quarantine . I hope she makes it but all of the rabbits tha were in the outside grow out pen got it.
I have the sole survivor on hay and kitchen oats, Terramycin water and no pellets for now.
Click to expand...

Get some kind of probiotics in that rabbit, especially since it is on the Terramycin. Probios paste works well and most of them will eat it right out of the tube.
 
LadySown, after the trial the guy on the yahoo group did with his growouts that showed continued weight gain with limited feed for a certain time, I have started limiting by time the feed my growouts are getting and have not noticed any slow down in weight gain here, either. I have mine on a 16% pellet (Purina Pro) and supplement with BOSS and rolled oats, but they do get free feed on hay when there is no other feed overnight.

These are a Satin x EA cross, so not a particular meat line, and they will not make 5# until 20 weeks, but that is OK for now.

When I was researching feed and supplements for my bunnies, I talked to an old man that owns a feed store who used to run a 1500 hole commercial herd. What he told me, even for my EA bunns is that the higher protein is not necessary for rabbits, and that if I wanted a higher protein, I would be better off feeding the 16% pellet and supplementing with alfalfa hay. But, for weight gain and to maintain a good coat on the EAs, the rolled oats and BOSS would supply the carbs and oils they needed and it would help grow fine pelts on the meat rabbits and providing free access to a good "horse grass" hay would help keep healthy guts. And he said don't waste time or money on timothy unless I wanted to get them the cut with the seed tops as a treat :lol:

I am growing winter wheat in my garden and harvesting the greens every other day and I have a doe that is totally holding out for that rather than her oats :lol: She is my Satin doe and has an attitude that I really don't care for, but she is an amazing mother, so I don't give in to her demands for greens every day :lol: This is also the one that builds a nest a week after breeding ... now, if I could only get my EA doe to that point too :lol:

ETA: They made 5# at 12 weeks! Woohoo!
 
YUP!
That and genetics.

I was talking about three months ago or so to an old time rabbit raiser about rabbits and weather and he mentioned that losing rabbits is most often connected with the weather and what you breed into your rabbits. I have found that true in my own herd as well.
 
ladysown":p5zbv151 said:
YUP!
That and genetics.

I was talking about three months ago or so to an old time rabbit raiser about rabbits and weather and he mentioned that losing rabbits is most often connected with the weather and what you breed into your rabbits. I have found that true in my own herd as well.
Click to expand...

Posted nearly the same problems, Ladysown.....pure pain in the backside when we can't get a handle on these problems....still think the weather, (this year especially) is a contributing factor.
Grumpy.
 
Hmm, I just lost one out of 15 to enteritis (entropathy?) at 4 weeks old. He was in the combined litters, had been inside in the cardboard corral at night for several weeks, weaned for a couple of days, but the Satin doe was not drying up, so I would take half the litter and let them relieve the pressure for a couple of minutes and he was one that nursed that morning. The litters had been outside on fresh grass for a week, after building them up to that since they were also getting fresh greens in the mom's cage (when they were supposed to be nursing :lol:), and I feed Purina Pro 16%. The kits also have access to pellets and oats and fresh water when in the pen, but that day, I forgot to put the feed out :(

He was fine when I brought them in that night, but woke to diarrhea all over the corral, him cold and lethargic/unresponsive and a poor little mess. Warmed him up with a quart ziplock of warm water and a towel with a handful of angora fluff. I also tried to syringe some lukewarm water into him, but even though he didn't struggle, it just dribbled out. He was gone in 3 hours and I buried him in the back yard.

It has been a week and none of the others have shown any sign of illness since, and none of the first litter showed any sign of illness. If it was weather related, I would think more of the 15 kits would have come down with it by now.

Also, even though the kits are outside all day, I am outside with them working around the property and they have the top of a pet taxi to hide in if they get scared, but I don't remember any undue terror in the babies.

My theory of enteritis striking like this has been that the doe has a mild form of it and passed it to the kits in the nestbox and that once they were on their own, any stress/scare could allow it to flare up. I would still think that theory holds up, except in this case, none of the other 21 kits the doe has had, nor the 5 angoras she fostered have shown any sign of weakened immune system.
 

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