Starve Out

[SoDak Thriver]

Look at how often I'm posting now. I'm so needy. An apparent side-effect of Rabbitosis, which has now infected the entire family here.

So, I brought the box inside, took all the kits out, discovered there are TEN kits instead of my previous count of eight, and everyone looks fed except for one (I studied Maggie's Fed vs Unfed pics). That one is active and strong and always looking for the nipple. I suspect it was just stuck on the bottom of the pile. When I put the kits back in, I put that one on top, but who knows if it'll stay there. Is there anything else I should do?

 

[MaggieJ]

If you feel inclined to intervene, try to put that kit on top at the time the doe usually feeds them. If you don't know when, does typically feed around dusk and dawn.

Another thing you could do is remove the fat kits to another box outside the cage and let the skinny one get a dedicated feeding. You might have to leave a few in there with it so it can stay warm. Sometimes one or two good feedings is all it takes to help it get enough strength to compete.

The other option is just to let nature take its course. If it doesn't pick up in the next day or so, culling is a possible answer. Nine is still a very nice litter. I hope I don't sound heartless . . . I admit I've never culled a kit that wasn't clearly suffering.

 

[Oscar]

I would say flip the doe, find a nipple, and feed it that way a few times.

 

[Nyctra]

Either let it go and not waste the effort on it, or let half of the fattest kits skip a feeding by removing them to a temporary nest to give the straggler a chance at a teat.

 

[Rainey]

I still find it puzzling why some kits just fail to thrive. Our first litter this year--9 kits, no runt--looked fine the first few days. Then day 5 or 6 one kit clearly not fed, not growing. Tried taking out the biggest 4 and leaving the unfed with 4 others for warmth for a feeding, but it was still not fed. I don't know if it was suffering, but it wasn't moving well and I don't think would have been able to take in milk or formula so we culled it.
When we had a doe that didn't feed a whole litter, that was really distressing. But when one or two out of a large litter don't thrive, I've come to accept that as part of raising rabbits. I know that many here would really try to save all kits. And maybe some cull does that don't keep all the kits they kindle? I think maybe sometimes a kit gets stepped on by the doe or maybe has something wrong from birth :? I wish it didn't happen but have come to accept it as part of raising rabbits.

Enjoy the fat healthy ones and enjoy your kids enjoying them and don't worry about asking lots of questions. That seems to be quite ok here--at least folks are always tolerant of mine

 

[FourRingCircus]

I have had a couple that just didn't make it for whatever reason. I even held two different does for one kit to try and nurse from - it knew what to do, and tried to latch/suck (you could see/hear it), but for whatever reason just couldn't get it figured out and ended up dying I should have taken care of it sooner, but it didn't look all that bad so I thought it was getting at least a little, and was hoping it was enough. Evidently not.

 

[SoDak Thriver]

Thanks, everyone! I'll try to advantage him this evening by keeping him on top of the pile and if he doesn't look fed before I got to bed, I'll try to flip Ginny and get him fed. If that doesn't work, and he's not fed in the morning, I'll cull.

These are meat rabbits; we are not attached. Not to mention, there's more kits there than I initially thought! I just don't want the kit to suffer unnecessarily. I never expected to keep 100% of our first litter. Definitely not heartless to suggest culling. Sometimes, it's gotta be done.

 

[akane]

I still find it puzzling why some kits just fail to thrive. Our first litter this year--9 kits, no runt--looked fine the first few days. Then day 5 or 6 one kit clearly not fed, not growing. Tried taking out the biggest 4 and leaving the unfed with 4 others for warmth for a feeding, but it was still not fed. I don't know if it was suffering, but it wasn't moving well and I don't think would have been able to take in milk or formula so we culled it.

There are lots of reasons some kits don't get fed but it mostly comes down to the capabilities of the doe. To evenly grow a large litter of kits so some don't start out at a disadvantage, to build a nest for the kits, to produce enough milk for the kits, and then minor behaviors that help all the kits stay in the nest properly and get to the milk before the doe jumps out. That's why productive does are so important and does are often only given 3 strikes before culled. It all comes down to the doe. I've had large breed does that couldn't raise more than 5 with all fosters dying and mini rex does who will raise 5 of their own plus part of the large breed litter. Along with all sorts of other variations and the occasional amazing doe who never failed.

 

[Rainey]

There are lots of reasons some kits don't get fed but it mostly comes down to the capabilities of the doe. To evenly grow a large litter of kits so some don't start out at a disadvantage, to build a nest for the kits, to produce enough milk for the kits, and then minor behaviors that help all the kits stay in the nest properly and get to the milk before the doe jumps out. That's why productive does are so important and does are often only given 3 strikes before culled. It all comes down to the doe. I've had large breed does that couldn't raise more than 5 with all fosters dying and mini rex does who will raise 5 of their own plus part of the large breed litter. Along with all sorts of other variations and the occasional amazing doe who never failed.

I still wonder what most people would count as a "strike"? Do you expect your does to raise every kit they kindle? I've been satisfied with does being able to raise 8 and accepted the loss of a kit or two from a bigger litter. Maybe those who have been at this longer have been able to breed up to no losses. Right now that looks like a goal that is still a ways off for me.

 

[FourRingCircus]

There are lots of reasons some kits don't get fed but it mostly comes down to the capabilities of the doe. To evenly grow a large litter of kits so some don't start out at a disadvantage, to build a nest for the kits, to produce enough milk for the kits, and then minor behaviors that help all the kits stay in the nest properly and get to the milk before the doe jumps out. That's why productive does are so important and does are often only given 3 strikes before culled. It all comes down to the doe. I've had large breed does that couldn't raise more than 5 with all fosters dying and mini rex does who will raise 5 of their own plus part of the large breed litter. Along with all sorts of other variations and the occasional amazing doe who never failed.

I still wonder what most people would count as a "strike"? Do you expect your does to raise every kit they kindle? I've been satisfied with does being able to raise 8 and accepted the loss of a kit or two from a bigger litter. Maybe those who have been at this longer have been able to breed up to no losses. Right now that looks like a goal that is still a ways off for me.

The ones I have had that have "struck out" were for failure to get PG over a period of time (after multiple attempts) and failed litters to the extreme - multiple dead and stretched kits (she had a small tumor in her horn). I think it depends on the person and their goals. I have one doe that has 5 or 6 kits per litter. For me that's OK, for someone else that might be cull worthy.

 

[MaggieJ]

There are lots of reasons some kits don't get fed but it mostly comes down to the capabilities of the doe. To evenly grow a large litter of kits so some don't start out at a disadvantage, to build a nest for the kits, to produce enough milk for the kits, and then minor behaviors that help all the kits stay in the nest properly and get to the milk before the doe jumps out. That's why productive does are so important and does are often only given 3 strikes before culled. It all comes down to the doe. I've had large breed does that couldn't raise more than 5 with all fosters dying and mini rex does who will raise 5 of their own plus part of the large breed litter. Along with all sorts of other variations and the occasional amazing doe who never failed.

I still wonder what most people would count as a "strike"? Do you expect your does to raise every kit they kindle? I've been satisfied with does being able to raise 8 and accepted the loss of a kit or two from a bigger litter. Maybe those who have been at this longer have been able to breed up to no losses. Right now that looks like a goal that is still a ways off for me.

With all due respect to Akane's extensive experience, I think it is unrealistic to expect 100% of kits to survive 100% of the time. Sometimes a kit has an unseen health problem and sometimes, especially in large litters, some just seem to get left behind. I've also seen tiny runts who had a strong will to live that did well and sometimes even ended up the largest of a litter.

Certainly the capabilities of the doe are of paramount importance, but if I had a doe that consistently raised eight kits, I would not worry about one or two losses per litter above that number.

 

[michaels4gardens]

JMHO, -- I keep track of litter and individual weaning weights. In time, I will know how many kits a doe can "successfully" raise. I allow her to keep the number of kits she can get to at least 4 lbs. in 8 weeks, the rest of the kits are fostered or killed.

 

[SoDak Thriver]

I did all I could for that kit. He just didn't want to live. By the time I went to bed, he was very weak and lethargic and very, very thin. I culled him.

I bred this doe at 5 1/2 months old. I think she's doing great!

 

[Rainey]

I did all I could for that kit. He just didn't want to live. By the time I went to bed, he was very weak and lethargic and very, very thin. I culled him.

I bred this doe at 5 1/2 months old. I think she's doing great!

I think you're doing great--it isn't easy to cull (especially when you're new to rabbits) even when it's the right thing.
And yes, she's doing great, feeding 9 kits well in a first litter sounds like a winner to me.

 

[SoDak Thriver]

I think you're doing great

Aw, shucks. Thanks.

The kids are doing well, too. They were sad about that kit and then I said, "y'know, just two days ago, we had 3 rabbits. Now we have 12."

They were like :shock: "heyyyyyy. You're right!" :?