Starting out with Netherland Dwarfs

[mmsa417]

Hi There,

I recently became interested in breeding Netherland Dwarfs for show. I've done about as much book research as I can do and for the rest, I really need to find a mentor (especially with picking out my first rabbits). I've tried to contact about 4 breeders in my area, but none have responded. Would anyone be willing to help with mentoring me or helping me find a mentor? Local would be great, I'm in the Central PA area, but online would be welcome too! Honestly, I'd love any help I could get right now..

Thanks.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hi Mmsa!

I can't help with your breed choice, but wanted to welcome you to the forum.

Until someone comes along to help, enjoy browsing the forum- there is a wealth of information on general care here.

:welcomewagon:

 

[mmsa417]

Thank you, Mama! I have definitely been soaking in all the info I have found!

 

[HoppinHalfPints]

Hi!

Welcome to rabbit talk!

Glad to find another ND lover. There aren't a lot on this website...apparently. :roll:

 

[AmysMacdog]

:welcome: to RT!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Glad to find another ND lover. There aren't a lot on this website...apparently. :roll:

There is an easy fix for that... post innumerable photos of adorable baby ND's and you will infect others with your personal rabbit obsession.

That's how I ended up with Jersey Woolys. :roll:

 

[mmsa417]

Thanks Amy and Hop! I looove NDs, they're not only adorable but incredibly sweet and smart. At least the ones I've had have been. Do you breed NDs Hop? or just an admirer?

 

[MamaMandy]

I got hooked on Netherlands when I was just twelve years old. I've had rabbits most of the time since then... about twenty years now! You can check out pics of all of my current stock on my Facebook page. The link is in my signature.

 

[HoppinHalfPints]

Thanks Amy and Hop! I looove NDs, they're not only adorable but incredibly sweet and smart. At least the ones I've had have been. Do you breed NDs Hop? or just an admirer?

Yeah I breed them. For about 2 years now. I have a thread running about ND's if you would like to stop by and see all the cute faces! :lol:

Glad to find another ND lover. There aren't a lot on this website...apparently. :roll:

There is an easy fix for that... post innumerable photos of adorable baby ND's and you will infect others with your personal rabbit obsession.

That's how I ended up with Jersey Woolys. :roll:

Hmmmm....Thanks for the idea. *rubs hands.*

 

[MamaSheepdog]

MamaSheepdog wrote:
HoppinHalfPints wrote:
Glad to find another ND lover. There aren't a lot on this website...apparently. :roll:


There is an easy fix for that... post innumerable photos of adorable baby ND's and you will infect others with your personal rabbit obsession.

That's how I ended up with Jersey Woolys. :roll:


Hmmmm....Thanks for the idea. *rubs hands.*

Glad to be of service.

*bows*

(I'd curtsy, but I'm in jeans...)

 

[mmsa417]

Mama,

Taking a look now! And I'm so overjoyed you have shadeds! I was planning on starting with that group because I love the colors so much, even though I read it was slightly more complicated. But I did a lot of reading up on the genetics, and am happy to see you even have the genotypes listed.good deal! Is the Smoke Pearl a buck or a doe? That blue otter is fricken adorable too!!! Are they showable? Curious, because they really are brilliant and I haven't seen many.

Do you ever get to PA for shows? I know they have one in Harrisburg in October, but argh what a long time to wait. Is there any other way to transfer bunnies? Because sadly you're 7 hours from me according to google =\

 

[MamaMandy]

Thank you!!! I'm a bit of a genetics nerd. LOL I'm not an expert by a long shot but I have a decent understanding of it all and I really enjoy it!! Shadeds are my favorite group with Smoke Pearl being my absolute favorite color! The Smoke Pearl for sale is a buck. I'd be keeping it if it were a doe! LOL He's really pretty sharp. Blue otter and Blue Silver Marten are both showable colors in Netherlands. Blues of any sort are a close second favorite for me.

I doubt I'd ever get to go to a show that far away. With having so many little kiddos that's not really feasible at this point in life! We're planning on going to a county fair show at the end of this month because it's only about a half hour away. I plan on showing that Smoke Pearl buck if he hasn't sold yet. I'm not sure about ways of transferring rabbits long distance like that but I know others on this forum have done it...even across several states I believe! Might be something to check into...

 

[mmsa417]

Hopp - Lots of cuties in that thread! I hope to add someone of my own soon

Mama - Yeah, back in high school I remember them introducing genetics and the punnet squares and I really loved how interesting it was. This was a good excuse to dive back into it. I still get kind of confused because I'm not used to working with such long genotypes - the ones in school were usually pretty short. Sometimes I get lost about the genes that conflict or cancel each other out..or the carriers..etc. But I'll get it with practice and until then, I can use a cheat sheet xD

Oh, btw! I actually had a big breakthrough and will be speaking to a seriously awesome breeder tomorrow morning. She's interested in meeting next week and I am SOO excited. Also, apparently the reason nobody has been responding to my emails is because most all of the rabbitries around here are closed. So yes, this is super lucky. I'll let you know how it pans out!

 

[MamaMandy]

Yeah, you'll get it! I was really into it about ten years ago and knew all the codes by memory. Then my own babies started coming thick and fast LOL and I had to get out of rabbits until they were a bit older. I still have little ones, but having some older boys that enjoy rabbits has enabled me to get back into the hobby and get quite serious with it this time. I'm actually making some money at it which is awesome. Anyway, I got back into the genetics and with just a little brushing up it all came back. I have actually learned a ton more this time around and have had more litters and experiences (including a successful post mortem c section!) in the past year than in all my years of rabbit raising before. I'm really glad I've been able to get back into the hobby... I enjoy all of it so much. Good luck with your new breeder contact! I really hope you can get some great stock.

 

[mmsa417]

Wow...that's pretty impressive! You know I was sitting here thinking of what I'd like to work on..and while looking at all of these genotypes (it's a pain because you don't know what a lot of them are for sure), I'm trying to figure out how to get smoke pearl and sable martens, which should actually work with the shadeds I'd like (siamese sable and smoke pearl). I'm just wondering what I'd have to breed them to..an otter?

Tell me if I did this math right please o_o

So Black Otter x Siamese Sable

at B_C_D_E_ x aa B- cchl- D- E- =

at(a)BBCcDDEE
at(a)B_C(chl)D_E_
_a_B_c_D_E
_a_B_chl_ _ _ _

So this looks to me like a 50% chance for black otters 25% for seals, maybe a silver marten, possibly even a sable marten! (what I would like), the last 25% seems way too open to possibilities..so I guess that would be exciting. And also the only possible a combinations would be (at)(at) (at)a right?

I guess I could tell better if I knew for sure what the parents were carrying. I'm not sure what will be available otter-wise. I've also heard using a seal instead can be a good idea because they always carry the shaded gene? Is that right? Thoughts?

 

[MamaMandy]

Yes, a black otter would be a good choice! If it didn't carry dilute though you wouldn't get any smoke pearl martens or smoke pearls. As long as your black otter has one dilute parent then you know it carries dilute. Oh, and you could get blue otters as well.

If your otter happened to be aT aT you'd get only otters and martens. If it's aT a you could also get selfs. You'd only get seals if your otter carried shaded. Seals can be good to use depending on what you're going for. If you breed a seal to a REW you'll get properly marked shadeds. Since a REW is cc and a seal is chl chl all kits will be chl c.

You could get silver martens only if your otter was C chd. And if it did, then you would never get smoke pearl martens or sable martens because the chd would cover the chl everytime.

So, the way I figure it these are your definite color possibilities not knowing any recessives...

Black Otter x Siamese Sable
Definite:
Black otter aT_ B_ C_ D_ E_
Possible:
Blue otter aT_ B_ C_ dd E_ (if both carry d)
Chocolate otter aT_ bb C_ D_ E (if both carry b)
Lilac otter aT bb C_ dd E_ (if both carry b and d)
Self Black aa B_ C_ D_ E_ (if the otter carries a)
Self Blue aa B_ C_ dd E_ (if the otter carries a and both carry d)
Self Chocolate aa bb C_ D_ E_ (if the otter carries a and both carry b)
Self Lilac aa bb C_ dd E_ (if the otter carries a and both carry b and d)
Seal aa B_ chl chl D_ E_ (if the otter carries a and chl)
Seal Marten aT B_ chl chl D_ E_ (if the otter carries chl)
Sable Marten aT a B_ chl_ D_ E_ (if the otter carries something recessive to chl such as ch or c)
Smoke Pearl Marten aT a B_ chl_ dd E_ (if the otter carries something recessive to chl and both carry dilute)
Siamese Sable aa B_ chl_ D_ E_ (if the otter carries a and something recessive to chl)
Smoke Pearl aa B_ chl_ dd E_ (if the otter carries a and something recessive to chl and both carry d)

Now, this is not an exhaustive list and does not include some unrecognized colors that could be possible, such as blue seal etc. REWs could also be possible if both carry c. Anyway, you had quite a bit of your figuring correct. It takes some time to remember to allow for all of the possible recessives and what covers up what! LOL

And if any of our genetics experts here on the forum have anything to add or correct feel free!

 

[Dood]

You are correct with the 50% otter but if your black otter has two full colour genes (CC) rather than (Ccchd or Ccchl or Cch or Cc) you will not get any shadeds.

To get a silver marten you need the chinchilla/dark shaded gene (=cchd) the light shaded gene (=cchl) only produces sable martens.

There are really too many blank spots in their genotype and we can only guess what they are secretly carrying. Knowing the grandparents, parents, siblings and offsprings colour will certainly help.

 

[mmsa417]

Mama - Copying all of that info down! Thank you so much for listing all of that for me! I really love learning about this! And will have to see if I can figure out in more depth what the parents are once I have them..or even before I get them. I might even consider trying to find a sable to make it a bit easier, but that might spoil the fun heh.

Dood - Wonderful thank you so much for the information. I will add that to my breeding word doc about the cchl, very useful. I also didn't know that C could 'coexist' with the other c genes, I figured it would always cancel out the others because it was dominant. But I guess in this case it would be a carrier that would have a chance to show in the babies when paired up correctly, right? Also love the Watership Down avatar xD

Oh and I set up a meeting with my breeder for the 21st! We talked this morning and really hit it off so I am super psyched! I am going to be getting some smoke pearls and siamese sables for sure, might see if I can find an otter that fits these requirements too as I know she breeds black, chocolate, and lilac otters as well. I also REALLY love the way blue otters look (Mama got me interested in them with her handsome kit). How do you end up with a blue otter? Do you have to introduce that dilute gene somehow? With a blue and a black otter maybe? I am just guessing off the top of my head since I haven't looked at their genotype yet.

Anyway, that might be too much of a distraction for now while I'm just getting started. Will have to try and retain SOME focus here! But I am still curious how you end up with them.

 

[Peach]

Convention is coming up in your State this October!Great time to make some awesome purchases If you go on facebook, there is a rabbit relay and transportation group.

 

[mmsa417]

Thank you for the tip, Peach! I'll look into that. I know there is a guy in VA who has some amazing buns that I'd love to have. I'm sure there will be MUCH more too!