sprouts vs fodder

[velacreations]

I have been researching sprouts and fodder systems a lot, lately. I would like to be able to replace pellets in my rabbits and poultry diets with this. But, the more I read, especially studies on fodder, I am starting to question whether I should just sprout the grain to 4 days, rather than go all the way to fodder.

Here is a bit of info from this big fodder thread http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/71333 ... r-chickens :

Example one -- from the famous and oft referenced Chavan and Kadam, 1989, Nutritional Improvement of Cereals by Sprouting. These fellows were working in the Dept of Biochemistry at an Agricultural University in Rahuri, India. This is from the abstract of the study. I couldn't find a copy of the actual study unless I was willing to spend something like $43US, and I'm too cheap for that and suspect most of us are.

They do claim that there is limited increase of a few amino acids (building blocks of protein), but that's not necessarily a great amount or enough of an increase to make it worth my time.

The part that hit me in this abstract was where it stated that the degree or magnitude or level of the improvement in the nutrition of the sprouted cereal grain ... "is not large enough to account for in feeding experiments with higher animals." Help me out; I'm not sure what that means exactly. Doesn't that mean that the improvement in nutrition isn't very large? That "account for in feeding experiments" could be some sort of agricultural lingo that I don't recognize.

Example two -- from Peer and Lesson from the Dept of Animal and Poultry Sciences at the University of Guelph, 1985, also often quoted, Feeding Value of Hydroponically Sprouted Barley for Poultry and Pigs.

An interesting point in this article is that the digestibility of protein and energy was higher for grains sprouted for 4 days that it was for whole grains. However, digestibility of protein and energy was highest if the grain was ground. (Barley).

Ok, now look at this document: http://www.qcl.farmonline.com.au/files/ ... fodder.pdf

It brings up some really good points about fodder and sprouts. Fodder at 8 days is 15% dry matter, 85% water. So, if you took 1 lb of grain and grew fodder with it, you get 6 lbs of fodder. But, that 6 lbs of fodder has only .9 lbs of actual feed, the rest is water. The original grain is 90% DM, so about .9lbs of feed.

Sprouts at 4 days have 85% dry matter, and usually about 1.5-2 lbs per pound of original grain. So, at 1.5 lbs, that is 1.3 lbs of feed (more than fodder and the original grain).

So, at first glance, fodder doesn't seem to add anything. But, then digestiblity comes into it. Whole grain is about 40% digestible, Fodder is 75%, and 4 day sprouts is 85%.

From the figures above, that gives us the actual feed digested by the animal out of 1 lb of grain:
Whole grain - .36 lbs
4 Day Sprouts - 1.1 lbs
Fodder - .7 lbs

This leads me to believe that it is better to sprout to 4 days, which is the peak of digestibility, and at the point where carbs are converted to sugars for growth. All of these studies ignore vitamin content in the fodder and sprouts.

It should be noted that protein does not actually increase in fodder. Concentration of protein increases, because DM drops so low. The actual weight of protein is the same as the raw grain. Fodder and sprouts do have more vitamins than the original grain.

Are we hurting ourselves by sprouting all the way to 8 days? What are your thoughts on this?

There is a lot of conflicting information out there on fodder, and most of the studies I have seen (that were not from fodder companies) seem to conclude that fodder is not the worth the effort. Sprouts, however, would be.

Any thoughts?

 

[skysthelimit]

This would be interesting, as I can never get mine past that stage because the house is so cold, but I could get them to the 4 day stage.

 

[velacreations]

I have been able to grow them well to 8 days, thick root mat and all. I am just wondering, though, if I might be shooting myself in the foot by going to the trouble of growing them that long.

It seems to me, according to the studies, that the less water weight the sprouts take on, the better for overall nutrition. Growing them longer just seems to add more water weight, but without increasing food value (actually decreasing it).

 

[Frecs]

Very interesting and thanks for the great post! My thoughts...

Four days would be easier for me than 8 as I struggle to keep my sprouts mold free beyond day 4. But, I ask myself this: what fits in with what a wild/foraging rabbit would likely choose -- sprouts or grass? My understanding is they would choose grass. Rabbits are herbivores with a need for lots of fiber and they also require lots of water. Grass (barley or wheat) would seem to fit those needs nicely.

I'd be interested to see how folks' rabbits respond to sprouts versus grass. My rabbits have not shown an interest in sprouts in the past and, frankly, are taking their time at warming up to the grass. My chickens are happy with either option.

 

[velacreations]

yeah, you may be right about what would the rabbit choose in the wild.

4 days is definitely easier, and takes a lot of the mold risk out of the equation.

Something about both sprouts and fodder is that they must be fed with roughage as well. That's where the fiber comes in. Fodder has more fiber than sprouts, no doubt, but if they are also fed hay (and it can be of a lower quality, because they are getting better nutrition from the sprouts/fodder), then fiber won't be an issue.

Animals sometimes take a while to adjust to new feeds. My rabbits eat the fodder without any issues, and I have yet to try them with sprouts, but I imagine they will like them just fine.

The sprouts might be more like a grain, in that they have more energy and carbs, compared to fodder, and fodder would be like grass. So, really, they can probably eat a lot more fodder than they can in sprouts. But, you would have to feed a lot more fodder to equal the same nutrition in the sprouts.

I am still on the fence about it. part of me thinks they should get the grass, the other part thinks they should get the feed at the nutritional peak (sprouts)

 

[Miss M]

This thread does not go much into the 4-day vs 8-day thing... there's just one chart, but you may find it interesting and useful. It has a number of links in it, as well. It's up to 8 pages now, and contains some of the experiences of members:

fodder-sprouting-systems-anyone-t10317.html

 

[skysthelimit]

Rabbits loved the sprouts, but then ones eat anything. It certainly will take mold out of the equation.

 

[velacreations]

Thanks Miss M, I've read through most threads on most site on this particular topic.

skysthelimit - yeah, mine tend to like whatever I give them. How much did you give them?

 

[skysthelimit]

I filled up the 4 oz crock about the same volume as I would pellets, probably weighed half as much.

 

[velacreations]

Do they seem to be eating it all without an issue? Are you feeding anything else? I have some sprouts going, I think I am going to try them and see what they think.

Also, I am considering doing a feed trial. Take 3 litters from different does, mix them up, and split them into 3 groups. Control group gets pellets. Next group gets sprouts. Third group gets fodder. All groups get free choice hay as normal. What do you think?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Also, I am considering doing a feed trial. What do you think?

That sounds like a great plan. Maybe a fourth group that gets a mix of sprouts and fodder. Looking forward to hearing the results.

 

[Miss M]

Looking forward to hearing the results.

Indeed! We are always excited to have data!

 

[skysthelimit]

Do they seem to be eating it all without an issue? Are you feeding anything else? I have some sprouts going, I think I am going to try them and see what they think.

Also, I am considering doing a feed trial. Take 3 litters from different does, mix them up, and split them into 3 groups. Control group gets pellets. Next group gets sprouts. Third group gets fodder. All groups get free choice hay as normal. What do you think?

Yes they are ok. I tried it on a cull first. They are still eating pellets because it's just too cold to produce sprouts like that, I had to take them to work to get them that far. In the spring I will start again. I fed a meat pen nothing but scraps and mulberry leaves, and I got one of the fastest maturing rabbits I've had so far, so i am looking forward to trying this.

 

[Frecs]

I fed a meat pen nothing but scraps and mulberry leaves, and I got one of the fastest maturing rabbits I've had so far, so i am looking forward to trying this.

Did you post about this somewhere on the forum? Or, will you??? I'd be very interested in learning what "scraps" you fed.

 

[velacreations]

mulberry leaves have a lot of protein, so that doesn't surprise me. They are an excellent fodder plant, and every rabbitry should have a dozen trees around for that reason.

 

[Frecs]

mulberry leaves have a lot of protein, so that doesn't surprise me. They are an excellent fodder plant, and every rabbitry should have a dozen trees around for that reason.

I did a google search after posting my question. You are very correct! It made me even happier to know that I'm working toward having a dozen or so mulberries. Makes me sad that it will take awhile to get them to a useful stage. I need to find some close by to forage from...

 

[velacreations]

mulberries grow pretty fast, and even after the second year of planting, you can start harvesting leaves.

 

[skysthelimit]

I fed a meat pen nothing but scraps and mulberry leaves, and I got one of the fastest maturing rabbits I've had so far, so i am looking forward to trying this.

Did you post about this somewhere on the forum? Or, will you??? I'd be very interested in learning what "scraps" you fed.

I fed beet tops, lemon balm, maple leaves from a tree I was trying to cut down, and mostly mulberry leave. Usually we just kill mulberry trees, they make so much mess. But the ones here have not had berries in the 4 years I've been here. The main bush/tree is behind the dog kennels, and I cut it down so my neighbor would be happy, and naturally the scraps went to the culls. Most were lean, but one grew so well I took her out of the cull cage, and gave her a spot in the barn.

 

[MaggieJ]

There are at least three mulberry species:

White Mulberry (Morus alba L.)
Black Mulberry (M. nigra L.),
American Mulberry, Red Mulberry (M. rubra L.).

Are they all good for rabbits? Is one better or faster growing than the others?

 

[Frecs]

There are at least three mulberry species:

White Mulberry (Morus alba L.)
Black Mulberry (M. nigra L.),
American Mulberry, Red Mulberry (M. rubra L.).

Are they all good for rabbits? Is one better or faster growing than the others?

I'd love to know the answer to that myself. I'm hoping to establish all three on my property but if one is better than the other, I'd like to have more of that type. Anyone know the answer?