Someone suggested keeping a doe's kits away from her???

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Kyle@theWintertime

Kyle@theWintertime

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While I was at the rabbit show in Lansing, MI at the end of the last month, I was asking advice from several breeders. Most of it seemed very good, no-nonsense advice...one person though, she suggested I take the nest box of babies away from the doe, and only allow the babies to be in the doe's cage long enough to nurse them once or twice a day. This...sounds a little strange to me. I have never heard that before nor is it in any of my books (unless I've somehow misread or overlooked it).

I have a doe who should be ready to kindle in a couple of weeks (fingers crossed for some really nice babies!!!) and I have no plans to take away the kits...but according to the breeder who told me the above info, if I just let the doe have 24/7 access she'll kill the kits. o_O

Can anyone confirm/deny this?
 
I guess she could just as easily "kill" them when you put them in for her to nurse, if that's what she was going to do. I've not had that particular advice given. The only advice about taking the kits away that I've seen has been for areas where it gets really cold. I've read of some people bringing the nest boxes into the house for that reason and then taking them back out a couple of time a day for the doe to nurse.
If I were that breeder who seems to need to take the kits away from the does so that she won't "kill" them, I'd think about culling the doe and focusing on raising rabbits that have better temperament. It sound like a lot of "make work" to me and I have better thing to do with my time.
The only problem that I've had has been with young, inexperienced does who seem a little nervous the first time and want to check on their kits repeatedly. I've notice that I need to be sure that the kits stay pushed to the back of the nest box for these few does so that they don't get stepped in in their mommy's over-eager jumping in and out of the box. This seems to calm down after the first few days with my few that have exhibited this behavior. Other than that, I am seriously keeping track of which does have nice fat babies, compared to other kits that are born at the same time. I want to keep them & their daughters for my breeders.
The others will be going to freezer camp,
 
Thanks for the info! That was kind of my thinking...it sounded outlandish to automatically take away the kits. O.O

Since all my rabbits live in my basement (stays nice and cool in summer with no AC needed, gets cold but not freezing in winter, plus I don't trust the neighbor dogs...if I could shoot them, I would) I'm not worried about kits getting too cold, so I think I'll just let them stay in with the doe. :)
 
depends on the rabbit, and the lines you breed your rabbits from. Some does will indeed kill their kits. It is NOT common unless you repeatedly breed from those lines.

MOST people though.. three strikes say GOOD BYE! there are too many nice does out there that won't kill their kits why would you bother with those that refuse to do so? Mind.. some breeds have mothering issues, so that's a whole different ballgame.

Normally people only remove kits from the doe under the following conditions
1. doe is ill
2. weather is cold and the litter is small .. but then most will simply bring the doe inside to care for her kits.
3. doe has a track record that says remove the kits by week three or doe becomes nasty toward them.
4. to foster kits to another doe. aka.. one doe has 11 and the other doe has 4... you even out the litters to make it easier on the doe.
 
IMHO in all things rabbit it's best to let nature take its course and interfere only when the situation is approaching an emergency. The rabbits are the real experts on raising popples.
 
I can't imagine taking the kits away routinely. It is something that is normally only done under extreme circumstances, such as those Ladysown has listed.

Occasionally, in rabbit breeding as in other endeavours, you will run into someone with a bee in their bonnet about some procedure or other. If it doesn't make sense and no one else is doing it, it's best to take it with a grain of salt.
 
Awesome, thanks for the advice. :) I didn't like the idea to begin with...plus honestly I would rather let the doe take care of them unless she is unwilling to do so. Granted I'm extra anxious because it is also her first litter, so...who knows what could happen?!

Fingers crossed, she's due on I think the 14th. :) I really, really hope she gives me the bunny of my dreams for Christmas. ;)
 
Kyle,
I ride with leaving the kits for the Dam to raise.
If a rabbit cannot get the job done, she gets three strikes
and then: She's GONE! As in stew pot or meat wagon.
There is no room at the inn for those who shirk their duties!
Ottersatin. :eek:ldtimer:
 
I have never had a doe kill her kits - well not purposefully - young 1st timers some times let them freeze by delivering out of the nest box, but generally not their fault as they are fine next time round. In fact my does would tear their hutch apart if I took their new kits out, they are very attentive and will visit their kits off and on all day not necessarily feeding them but just checking on them. One doe will lay with them just as a mother cat would.
 
I'd let the doe raise them unless there are extreme circumstances. We tried this last winter with one doe when the temperatures were sub zero. All it did was confuse the doe. She'd start pulling fur & try to build a nest every time you put the nest box back in for feeding. She'd jump in and out constantly and start digging in the nest box. She eventually settled down and fed the kits but they were at great risk of being crushed. Maybe all does wouldn't act like that, but that was our experience.
 
That's what I'd thought, but figured that since I am admittedly pretty new to all this, I'd ask. :) Thanks again for the info...hopefully as she's a first-time doe she won't smush her kits. :p
 
You can do it that way, its a lot of work though. I only take away nest boxes in the cold, and usually do not put the box back in the mother's cage, instead I bring her in and put her in the box and make her feed them. I then check check bellies for fullness before I put the mother back out. I did have one doe who was a digger, would make a nest, have the kits in it, be good for a day or two and then go in and dig up the entire nest throwing babies everywhere to freeze to death. I always took her kits away, trained her to quietly sit and feed them when I wanted her to, and once the kits were three weeks old I'd put them in with her and they were large enough get in and out of the nestbox and chase her to be fed. It was a pain though, I finally culled her once I no longer needed her genetically. Would not tolerate that behavior again.
 
I've heard of it before. It's called "shelf-raising". It worked well for me when I had a doe that wouldn't nurse the kits. But if I held them over her, than kept them away for 24 hours, she would give them one good solid nursing every day after.
 
I just googled Chue Method and found her site...that seems like an awful lot of work to circumvent nature. o_O I will agree that there is some risk involved...as I said, this will be my doe's first litter so it may not be spectacular, but the idea of keeping kits away from the mother just doesn't seem right to me. Plus some of her stated risks are not a factor in my situation...she talks about the kits being accidentally pulled from the nest box when nursing if mom hops out, and then dying of exposure...my basement is cool but not THAT cold (I can go down there in a t-shirt and not be too uncomfortable!), and the doe in question is going to be in the one cage that is flat-bottomed so there's no risk of baby feet getting caught in wire either.

I grant you I know there's some risk the doe may squash the kits or groom them to death or some such awful fate, but, while I will be very unhappy and upset if this happens I also think that if mom wants to nurse her kits, she should have free access. I don't think the kits will be warmer in a box upstairs in my kitchen than they will be snuggled up to the doe!

I was suspicious of the advice to take the kits away from the doe to begin with, now that I've read her article on it, I'm certain I won't be doing that unless there's a real reason or a serious problem.

In the meantime I keep looking at the calendar and counting days til she's due!!! :D Hopefully my first home-bred show rabbit is born this month, wouldn't that be a wonderful gift for the holidays? :) I feel like a child waiting to see if Santa is going to bring me what I really want, instead of a 30-year-old hovering over a doe like an anxiety-ridden vulture. ;)
 
I'm not familiar with the "Chu Method" I'll have to go read up on it. But what I read was more of a one time solution to a new mother when you have no fosters, or if a doe is really well marked or a valuable show rabbit, that someone didn't want to cull for being a bad mother (not sure I see the sense in this).

I've also read about it being used if the rabbits are outside and it's bitter cold, or if a rabbit has a very large litter and they split the litters and swap them out the first couple weeks to ensure less loss of life.

I agree it's not the ideal, and it's always best, if not just easiest, for the doe to just take care of the kits. I don't think anyone is suggesting it full time (except for your lady at the show) I'm just letting you know I'd heard of it, used it, and can see where it might be a useful application if you have no other options. :)
 
In reading this Chu Method article, she insists it be done with every single litter. Which sounds a little crazy to me.

Granted if a doe rejects her kits or if there are too many or some other problem, I'm certainly willing to do what needs to be done, including taking the kits away, but...if there's no need, I won't. ;)
 
The method obviously works for Betty Chu, but that does not mean that everyone must adopt it. I think most rabbit breeders prefer to let the doe do the raising. A good doe does more than just feed her young. She also teaches them her own good habits of nurturing and hygiene.
 
I went and read that page...she obviously has a lot of wins and etc but her routine for the buns seems more 'control freak' and less about care. I even hate to use the term. Maybe...extreme hands on would be better?
 

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