So what do you think...did I handle this correctly?

[ladysown]

This is a letter I wrote to a meat breeder about rabbits I purchased from him for a dog food client that I have:

butchered your rabbits this morning and discovered a problem.

of the three young ones.. two had coccidiosis...not bad but present. Just needed to remove one lobe from each. And interestingly enough it was both the 4.6 lbers.

of the two biggers ones.. one had coccidiosis so bad I tossed the liver and the the entire contents of the body, I have rarely seen a liver that badly infected. the other one had just a touch of it. BOTH of these bucks had broken back legs and were a difficulty to trim. Were you aware of those broken legs?

So.. here's the deal.. treat your rabbits. And don't sell them to me for at least a month post treatment.

I will take TWO younger ones (so that 4-4.4 range) and see how they are --- if they have it again, then no more bunnies from you. Sorry...but it's not worth the issues that it brings up. Means I'm explaining why there's no liver and people DO NOT like hearing it's because that bunny was ill. and no more bunnies with broken back legs... they were HARD to cut through.

AND here's the other issue.. Shall I tell (individuals I know this individual just sold to) to treat their bunnies for coccidiosis or shall you? Four out of five means there is definitely an issue at hand.

I had it run through my herd once so I know treatment isn't an issue. I'll be doing my whole herd in the next two weeks just because I don't want go there ever again. And where the bunnies were will be thoroughly scrubbed. Means my buns will have a chance to grow up a bit and I won't be selling anything for a bit for dog food. Bummers that..... ah well. life continues....

So what do you think? Did I handle that correctly? Anything thing you think I could do different or better? thanks.

 

[MaggieJ]

I don't think I would have worded it quite like that... but that's just me. It came across to me as a bit strong, unless you know that this person was aware of the problems when he sold you the rabbits.

My concern would be that I could not trust this person to provide healthy rabbits in future. I also would not trust that he held them for a month post-treatment. I don't think I would deal with this person again. But again... that's just me. And how the heck could two of the rabbits get broken legs? Doesn't sound like a reputable breeder to me. Accidents happen, but two in one batch???

 

[ladysown]

wasn't meant to come across as strong.... just more straight-forward. butchered them, saw this issue, this is how it affects me and sales, let's fix it.

 

[ottersatin]

Ladysown,
I think you handled that quite well!
Of course I am of the belief that if those types
do not have the infringement pointed out to them in
a no holds barred manner, they will NEVER get the message!
Of course they may never get the message anyway.
Sometimes the light is ON, but there is nobody home!
As always, JMPO.
Dennis, C.V.R.

 

[ladysown]

well just heard back from the breeder... treatment will happen. Turns out these were pet store returns so exactly where the issue happened we're not sure. but to be on the safe side treatment on the herd will commence as soon as meds are purchased. I've dealt with this person before for animals as breeding stock and trust the integrity of the individual involved.

The one leg was known about but since was for pet food, neglected to mention that, and the other seemed more a foot stomp type break as it was right in the foot near the joint (not obvious unless you were handling that foot involved)...the other was a true break of the leg bone.

i did suggest that talking to the pet store involved might be a good idea. They don't want to be selling sick stock.

 

[ottersatin]

So,
I guess I must apologize for my post above.
Sorry, I seem to have jumped the gun!
Dennis, C.V.R.

 

[ladysown]

oh Dennis... I agreed with your post. Some people don't learn. I've had other people that I've gotten stock from that I won't deal with again because they shrugged off concerns.

I'm actually pleased with the response I've gotten.

 

[MaggieJ]

Glad it worked out. Must mean you handled it just fine... can't argue with results.

 

[Shara]

if someone came up to ME and said that, I have to say I would be MORTIFIED, but I would fix the problem. Some people I know you'd have to be that clear in order to get anything done. I think you did good. A little blunt, but then, sometimes it's called for. Plus you have your reputation, too, no one wants to feed sick animals to their pets, Im sure. Glad it worked out...

 

[Half Caper Farm]

I happen to know the person in question, he's a very good friend of mine, and I know that he would never deliberately sell a sick animal. Let's face it, until you butcher and look at the liver, you can't tell that the rabbit has coccidiosis unless it's really bad.

I also happen to know that this person has bent over backwards in the past to please you, and has replaced rabbits that didn't make it in your barn, for nothing. I've had many, many breeding-stock rabbits from him that have survived and gone on to produce well, so I know that his stock is generally pretty healthy.

So, yes, I think you were a little bit on the strong side. :|

 

[ladysown]

so how would I word things differently to not seem to be on the strong side?

that really wasn't my intent.... I wanted to be straight forward and was trying not to seem nasty but just to say Hey... found this in your rabbits. SO how do I word things differently? that's a serious question. Sometimes when one words things in a straight forward manner one might come across differently then intended so.. help me out here....<br /><br />__________ Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:34 pm __________<br /><br />okay so fine.... Now I'm all worried that I've offended someone that I respect as a breeder.... AH!!!

So I've written this individual to say sorry if I was rough on you, that wasn't my intent. I'm not mean, and I'm not hard on people, I"m straight forward, I'm blunt...because it matters.

Whether it was pet shop errors in rabbit maintenance, or just one of those things that happens... but I"m not mean and that's the impression I"m getting from some of these responses...

ALL I was trying to ask here was how do I write something like this to someone BETTER? And now I hear that I was mean (at least that's what I'm hearing when folks say that I came across too strong). That wasn't my intention.....

 

[MaggieJ]

No one thinks you are mean, Annette. Written communication, even more than spoken, is "filtered" by the recipient and everyone "hears" different nuances. That's what makes it so darned difficult.

This was the part I found a bit strong:

"So.. here's the deal.. treat your rabbits. And don't sell them to me for at least a month post treatment.

I will take TWO younger ones (so that 4-4.4 range) and see how they are --- if they have it again, then no more bunnies from you. Sorry...but it's not worth the issues that it brings up. Means I'm explaining why there's no liver and people DO NOT like hearing it's because that bunny was ill. and no more bunnies with broken back legs... they were HARD to cut through.

AND here's the other issue.. Shall I tell (individuals I know this individual just sold to) to treat their bunnies for coccidiosis or shall you? Four out of five means there is definitely an issue at hand."

I likely would have said something like:

"This morning, I butchered the rabbits I got from you. I thought you would want to know that two of the three young ones had coccidiosis - not bad, I just had to remove one lobe on each. Interestingly, the affected rabbits were the 4.6 pounders.

In addition, one of the large rabbits had coccidiosis so bad that I had to discard the liver and entrails. The second rabbit had just a touch of it. As you know, I am selling these rabbits as dog food and people want the internal organs intact and need to know that the rabbits they feed their pets are healthy ones. In addition to the spotty livers, both bucks had broken hind legs, which made trimming difficult and must have been painful and stressful for the rabbits.

I would like to continue to do business with you, but I'm sure you understand that I can only buy healthy rabbits. Since so many of this batch of rabbits had coccidiosis, I hope you will consider treating your entire herd to eliminate the problem and then holding the rabbits for a month post-treatment so that the medications have a chance to get out of their systems."

What you do about the other buyers depends on circumstances. If they bought to butcher, they would likely see there was a problem. If they bought for other reasons, I agree someone needs to tell them that those rabbits may have coccidiosis. I would likely have added:

"I know (names) also bought rabbits from you recently and it concerns me that they may be unaware of a potential health threat to their herds. One of us should let them know. Would you like me to take care of it?"

 

[ladysown]

Maggie, thank you. That is helpful.

 

[MaggieJ]

You're welcome... Should have done that for you this morning, but I was a bit pressed for time. The nice thing about writing on computers is that you can tweak something until it says exactly what you want it to... in a way the reader can handle. It does take a bit of time though.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Oooh, so I'm curious...how do you preventively (sp?) treat rabbits for coccidiosis?

Emily

 

[ladysown]

couple ways you can handle coccidiosis

1. feed a medicated feed that is FOR coccidiosis ... I learned today that some medicated feeds are generic internal parasites (aka worms) and that others can be specified. Beyond that I don't know much.

2. Medication once you know you have it. Sul-met, corid, albon are the med names used to treat for coccidiosis. There are two types...intestinal or liver. Spots on the liver are the liver types, whereas the intestinal one is what I think medicated feed targets. Some of that is supposition from what I've heard. And well hearsay is what hearsay is.

From what I've learned they respond differently to treatment as well and the liver type needs to be treated more aggressively to get it out of your herd.

For the most part... good cleaning protocols eliminate most of the threat. So for the one that was really bad with it...it's broken leg probably played a BIG part in the amount of illness it portrayed ...if keeping it clean during it's healing time period was difficult to do well.

as a side note....

I have learned that all these young rabbits spent time in a pet store - which is where the leg damage occurred as well. So for all I know the damage occurred there and may have nothing to do with the individual I bought them from. As a precaution this individual will be treating the herd.

Do know that I hold the breeder they come from in highest regard and I was quite stunned to see four out of five affected. This person knows that I hold them in high regard and understands that I really meant well overall, just that I might have phrased differently ... which I now know too.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

I am concerned about the pet shop angle of this... Broken legs from pet shop returns and a couple totally condemned livers?? I also don't understand why rabbit herds that are used for producing meat for animal or human comsumption isn't routinely dosed for cocci prevention? That way the young are born to clean parents and don't pick it up themselves; therefore not needing to be treated themselves before slaughter.

Truly concerned that the petshop in question needs to be checked out?

 

[ottersatin]

I am concerned about the pet shop angle of this... Broken legs from pet shop returns and a couple totally condemned livers?? I also don't understand why rabbit herds that are used for producing meat for animal or human comsumption isn't routinely dosed for cocci prevention? That way the young are born to clean parents and don't pick it up themselves; therefore not needing to be treated themselves before slaughter.

Truly concerned that the petshop in question needs to be checked out?

When rabbits are cared for properly there is no need for preventive medication.
In fact, it is detrimental to the herd to medicated when not treating a specific disease.
Doing so only helps to produce germs which are resistant to the medication.
I have a disease resistant herd through proper culling technique you can easily
do away with constantly treating sickly rabbits.
It is not a good idea to constantly medicate your rabbits.
If rabbits possess a week constitution and easily become ill,
they should be culled, not treated and used in a breeding program.
If you do you will fix that weakness into your blood lines.
As always, JMPO.
Dennis, C.V.R.

 

[MaggieJ]

I agree with Dennis on this. There should be no need for "preventative" medication in a well-run rabbitry.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

The cocci is quite obviously in that environment and it is cruel to NOT treat them OR prevent it in the first place. This is a parasite we are talking about not some generic germ. It is present as oocysts in the poop and soil and will infect what rabbits are snuffling around in it. To ignore this is to let your animals suffer. I also said that if the breeders remain free of it through prevention then it was unnecessary to treat the fryers. This is the number one disease of rabbits and you can't "breed it out" You CAN keep the enviroment they are in clean and you can also breed healthy animals ,but one oocyst up the nose of one healthy well bred animal and it will still get cocci.