So what do the lungs look like (snuffles)

[Legacy]

In the batch we just butchered, there was one that was sick and quarantined. I'm pretty sure it was snuffles. We did not put that one in the freezer with the rest of them but I did want to compare the organs. All of it's organs looked healthy except the lungs. Instead of the soft supple pink, they were a very rubbery white. They were not smooth soft and supple like the healthy lungs. They kind of looked and felt like wet silly putty. They were also large.

Is that what snuffles look like in the lungs?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

When I butchered the ones that had snuffles, their lungs were patchy with that white color and the white parts felt just like what you describe....

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

you are also describing what is known as Aspergillosis in many animals!!! Asper is a fungal infection that is present in all environments--

 

[Legacy]

ok. It helps to know that I was right. He was obviously very sick. His lungs were not patchy at all. He has been sick for about a month. He sounded as if he was "grunting" when he breathed. It also helps to know that non of the rest of the batch had it by looking at the lungs, which is good because he was in the cage with them when I discovered it. I guess I caught it before they were infected.

This was a kit from a momma that died suddenly after being exposed to a flea market rabbit. After today's butchering session, that eliminated all of the kits to that momma and should be all of the bunnies that could have possibly been exposed.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

That is pretty much what happened to me...got a feed store bunny and it got sick after having it in quarantine for two weeks. It got all three of my does sick and I had to cull them all after weaning the kits early. I have been watching them and tonight I dispatched the first kit that started showing symptoms. Its lungs were also paste-y white and unhealthy looking, so that was a confirmation to me that it was definitely the right thing to cull it.

 

[xlt]

might be a silly question, but did either of you happen to take a picture of what you mean by the off coloration of the lung?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

might be a silly question, but did either of you happen to take a picture of what you mean by the off coloration of the lung?

Not silly at all, but no I did not. It was starting to get dark and I was trying to get finished. If I have another one...hope not...I will try to take pics for you.

 

[Legacy]

No, I didn't either. I don't know if it would have been noticeable on pics but I should have tired.

 

[xlt]

Just wondering, because I have a few that sneeze, but during the wind storms in the Spring etc., had some dusty hay. I have had a couple with white snot, that went to the great hutch in the sky immediately.

But I notice some variation in the lung coloration, just some light brown spots sometimes... look almost like blood penetrated the lungs on dispatch or something. I use cervical dislocation and was told this was a possibility with this method.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

you are also describing what is known as Aspergillosis in many animals!!! Asper is a fungal infection that is present in all environments--

I thought 'snuffles' or pasturella was caused by gram-negative bacteria? So there may be a disease causing sneezing and white snot that is caused by fungus? Perhaps this is why there is so much discrepancy between peoples' 'results" of treatment....sometimes its from bacteria and sometimes from fungus; so different antibiotics would be needed. :!: :!: :?:

 

[akane]

Even when it's a bacterial infection it's not always caused by pasturella.
Like bordetella
Staphylococcus aureus
Moraxella catarrhalis
Mycoplasma spp
Chlamydia spp
There are a lot of reasons for respiratory symptoms in rabbits.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Apergillosis is rampant in the environment-- and a "natural' way to kill it on surfaces is to use a teaspoon of vanilla in a gallon of water-- Avoid using any water container that cannot be easily disinfected-- so no plastic or rubber! Most wildlife rehabbers are of the belief that Asper is only a lung issue, but when I researched it, I found it can and does, affect the harder tissues, as well. This means heart, kidneys,liver, etc. Whenever the resident birds at the rehab center would come down with it-- it was almost always diagnosed as pneumonia by the vet the first time around. Asper cannot be diagnosed without a culture-(or a post mortem exam)-antifungals are given along with an antibiotic to handle opportunistic infections. Once an animal has been infected with Asper, it succumbs more readily the next time around- as the internal organs never really recover. In a post mortem exam, if the fungus has gotten into the harder organ tissues-- they look sort of 'mushy'*** think sponge with lots of tiny holes, rather than the larger holes typical of TB.

 

[xlt]

dispatched eight fryers today, and all the lungs looked healthy and normal at nine weeks, so I guess whatever it was is not a rampant illness at this point.

 

[eco2pia]

Even when it's a bacterial infection it's not always caused by pasturella.
Like bordetella
Staphylococcus aureus
Moraxella catarrhalis
Mycoplasma spp
Chlamydia spp
There are a lot of reasons for respiratory symptoms in rabbits.

I had been wondering this too... I mean that does totally explain the different anecdotal cures people find and then swear by. I figure to be so rampant in the rabbit population there is probably a whole host of diseases that cause nasal discharge, and so often just get labeled "snuffles". Not the most precise diagnosis?

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I had been wondering this too... I mean that does totally explain the different anecdotal cures people find and then swear by. I figure to be so rampant in the rabbit population there is probably a whole host of diseases that cause nasal discharge, and so often just get labeled "snuffles". Not the most precise diagnosis?

Part of the problem, is getting quality medical care for such a small 'herd' animal. A vet who basically charges 100 dollars to park your vehicle in the lot in order to bring in one representative rabbit is a bit steep in order to address the health of a whole herd of meat rabbits. These specialty pet vets refuse to acknowledge that rabbits are livestock-- just like chickens, cows, sheep-- they want to see each individual animal- and will not treat a herd, sight unseen. If we all had culture mediums, incubators, microscopes, and stains-- if we all could actually do the diagnostic lab-work ourselves--a lot of the hit and miss treating could be eliminated-- BUT-- we don't have what we need at our disposal, and therein lays the biggest problem. Every herd carries pasteurella spp. Each herd has it's own variant. Your herd may be resistant to your variety, but if I bring your kit into my herd-- my herd gets wiped out-- but not until the rabbit I bought from you is infected and weakened by my herds species of pasteurella--
even if we all could just stain a sample of blood- looking for gram negative or positive, as far as bacterial infections-- we could target with a more specific drug, rather than rely on broad spectrum antibiotics- which continued use only makes things worse in the long run.

 

[akane]

All my vets (of which I keep 5 for different purposes given the variety of animals we have) will treat a herd without seeing all of them but they still charge in the $80 range to diagnose one of the animals. It's $40 office visit fee for all of them and for the best vet that we use for our more exotic animals it's then $20 per animal you bring in after that before they even get examined. A single test usually pushes $40. Multiple tests and we nearly always walk out with a bill over $100. $80-100 isn't worth telling me if I'm actually dealing with pasturella or not because I'm not going to treat them with antibiotics anyway. Maybe if I had irreplaceable animals due to it being a rare breed and I needed to keep them alive long enough to start breeding resistence but otherwise I'm just going to keep whoever doesn't get sick, sell as pets or butcher whoever gets sick and recovers, and put down whoever doesn't recover.

 

[Artios]

Part of the problem, is getting quality medical care for such a small 'herd' animal. A vet who basically charges 100 dollars to park your vehicle in the lot in order to bring in one representative rabbit is a bit steep in order to address the health of a whole herd of meat rabbits. These specialty pet vets refuse to acknowledge that rabbits are livestock-- just like chickens, cows, sheep-- they want to see each individual animal- and will not treat a herd, sight unseen.

Not all vets are that way. Granted, I have spent years developing a relationship with my vet, one visit at a time. (we've got a lot of critters) She's the exotics vet, and also does work with farm animals on the side. We've spent enough time chatting and swapping info back and forth that she's much more leniant with what absolutely has to come in to see her. I guess it helps too that I used to be a tech. I can just call in and get prescriptions for certain meds - not all and only reptile stuff so far, and my pharmist hubby fills them at cost. No office visit to pay. Testing is typically the cost of supplies if it's in house. I also have her personal email that I use to chat back and forth with her if I need to. (I try not to be intrusive though) It didn't get that way overnight, and I did go through a lot of vets before I found a good one, but it can be done.

Not everyone can be so lucky, but if you find a good, solid vet definitely hang onto them. They're worth their weight in gold.

I've yet to have any rabbit issues to take to her, but given the bottomless fount of knowledge she's had when treating my dozens of snakes, six birds, tortoise, and elderly cat I have complete confidence that she'll recommend the right thing. I have no doubt that she would come to my home in the case of something herd-wide, and it would probably only cost me a jar of peanut butter filled pretzels. We both love those. :lol: Sorry for rambling, but I just wanted to speak up on behalf of the vets that aren't just in it for the piles of cash, and don't mind getting their hands dirty. It just takes the time and effort to get to know them, show them you're very much capable of a working relationship.

That said, I will cull with a heavy hand. Weakness has no place in any of my animal groups.

 

[BoxerMom]

Bumping this post up - hoping someone has a picture of healthy lungs and snuffle lungs.