So I thought I could only get blue tort

[CochinBrahmaLover]

But these guys don't look blue tort??

So y'all know the buns I posted ~1 week ago on sexing them? If not no biggie. Just that, Well these are the same ones! 4/5 made it. I made a comment about how they looked pinker than normal, but afaik I could only get blue torts.

Mom is a VM Siamese, sable I believe, and dad is a blue tort

The babies are SUPER wiggly, so it's hard to get a good pic, lol. They sorta look like blue torts but they're super light?

All but 1 is vienna marked.

This is super awesome because it's my first 'full' litter, so far every other litter has only had 1 made it this far... I'm glad Molly (the mom) has matured a bit and become a great mother

 

[alforddm]

They look blue tort to me but I'm still training to id rabbit colors.

 

[Celice]

it looks like I can see 1 black tort and 3 really dark blue. Blue torts kinda look creamy or fawn like in the main part of the coat and the black torts look red:

there is a blue tort in the very back and a black tort in the front. The broken fawn is really a tri, then there is one black and 2 opal.

and here they are when they are older:

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Yeah they do look blue tort but they look awfully yellow in natural light. For comparison, my other babies

At 3 days old, they were already pretty much blue, and any orange was pretty dark.

Week old, same as the babies Im questioning. Much darker, much bluer

Celice - Maybe my colors are different?? I was told dad was a blue tort (by these members) and this is what he looks like

He's really dark blue. Even my black tort is pretty black

 

[Celice]

holy smokes! those are INSANELY dark. Those are bordering sable! what breed are these rabbis?

I can't remember is tort can be steeled or not. your black tort lop is pretty much the normal one I'm seeing. The others are really dark, I'm going to do some research to see if tort can be steeled or not.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

holy smokes! those are INSANELY dark. Those are bordering sable! what breed are these rabbis?

I can't remember is tort can be steeled or not. your black tort lop is pretty much the normal one I'm seeing. The others are really dark, I'm going to do some research to see if tort can be steeled or not.

Lol. The babies aren't nearly as dark as the dad, they ended up with a lot more orange, like the black tort. (The right one is the black torts baby)

They're holland lops, all from the same breeder. But I don't think they share any parents.

 

[Celice]

it looks like tort can't be steeled.

So I'm going to assume these guys are just really dark, smutty torts most likely do to breeding dark torts with darker torts so much so they are loosing the red in the coat. If you ever want to brighten them up get a red or Japanese Harlequin buck or doe and breed it with the torts, that should bring out the red in them.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Soo, is it preferable to have lighter or darker torts? I know someone with a harlequin that I may be able to breed to, but idk if it's worth it. I want to breed BEW anyways, but considering that one of these kits isn't VM I may do blue torts as well.

 

[Celice]

Soo, is it preferable to have lighter or darker torts? I know someone with a harlequin that I may be able to breed to, but idk if it's worth it. I want to breed BEW anyways, but considering that one of these kits isn't VM I may do blue torts as well.

I've always heard that it better if the torts are lighter. this way their points show off better against a lighter coat. Oh, you will get torted Harles which is a big no no in showing so just be careful on that if you are showing if they are just pets no need to worry about it.

 

[akane]

They don't have to be VM to carry vienna and produce bew. You can test breed some of the kits back to the parent or each other for any vm or bew offspring that confirm which ones are carrying it. It may take a couple litters to see it but you should have 50/50 odds of each kit from a VM parent carrying vienna.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

No I'd like to show them. In which case I'll try and lighten it through these guys I guess, since they're a lot lighter than my current buck.

Yes I know they don't need to be VM to throw BEW but I'd like a line without any VM so that half the litter isn't automatically disqualified. But we can see how the baby turns out and the babies it produces.

 

[Celice]

No I'd like to show them. In which case I'll try and lighten it through these guys I guess, since they're a lot lighter than my current buck.

Yes I know they don't need to be VM to throw BEW but I'd like a line without any VM so that half the litter isn't automatically disqualified. But we can see how the baby turns out and the babies it produces.

then you'd want to use a red colored rabbit. the red should really brighten them up and within a few litters you'd have what you want

 

[Dood]

I see one black tort (top left) and 3 blue torts

A Siamese sable crossed with a blue tort can produce black, blue black tort, blue tort, Siamese sable(black sable), smoke pearl (blue sable) sable point, blue point and any number of other colours depending on the recessive genes the parents carry

I don't know what the SOP is for blue tort Hollands or if the judges prefer lighter or darker torts but different tones are caused by darkening modifiers and it looks like this doe lacks them while the mother to the other litter has them which is why her kits were darker when crossed to your dark buck

If you don't want any Vienna carrier or marked rabbits then are you planning to breed BEW to BEW? Be cautious as there have been health issues associated with BEW's

__________ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:33 am __________

I just did a search and Molly is a sable point so you would not get black, blue, Siamese sable or smoke Pearl from the cross

 

[Prisma]

Just a thought for looking up...super dark black torts are also called madagascar torts. They are super dark.

When it comes to showing, I've not seen a super dark tort do well on the tables. They need to be bright enough to show their shading well but not look red or rusty.

http://www.sleepyhollowrabbitry.com/genetics.html

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

I see one black tort (top left) and 3 blue torts

A Siamese sable crossed with a blue tort can produce black, blue black tort, blue tort, Siamese sable(black sable), smoke pearl (blue sable) sable point, blue point and any number of other colours depending on the recessive genes the parents carry

I don't know what the SOP is for blue tort Hollands or if the judges prefer lighter or darker torts but different tones are caused by darkening modifiers and it looks like this doe lacks them while the mother to the other litter has them which is why her kits were darker when crossed to your dark buck

If you don't want any Vienna carrier or marked rabbits then are you planning to breed BEW to BEW? Be cautious as there have been health issues associated with BEW's

__________ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:33 am __________

I just did a search and Molly is a sable point so you would not get black, blue, Siamese sable or smoke Pearl from the cross

The 2 kits in the photos are from each mom. The mother of this light litter was the mother of the left kit w/ a white nose. She had 1 kit, as well as the other doe, (well 1 surviving kit, both their first litters) so I pulled them from each mom and did private feedings. Once the kits were old enough to be out of the nest, I put them with their respective moms. But then the sable doe kindled a few days later, so I put her older kit with the black tort and they became siblings.

Well, it's not that I don't like VM rabbits, it's that I want to show, and so far, this is my first rabbit I've seen without any obvious signs of being VM, but his toenails could still turn out white, or have a blue eye. I'd be fine with breeding VM to VM for BEW, but it'd be nice to have a little side line where I wouldn't immediately be able to tell that every single kit is DQd, or wait 4 weeks to see if the single one isn't.

What issues are associated with BEWs? Is it just breeding BEW x BEW, or does VM x VM produce the same issues? What about VC x VC, or VC x BEW or whatever?

Also, should note, this buck was the result of wildly colorful breedings. His pedigree has much more than just dark torts on it.

__________ Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:18 pm __________

Individual photos.. Which one is the black tort?

1

2

3

4

Group photo

 

[funnies50]

THey're super adorable. And totes wiggly. And as a side note, I'm picking up a lot of info on rabbit coloring/marking from looking at random ppls threads. :twisted: