Silver Fox Angora Cross F2 picts

[skysthelimit]

The F2 litter was born the other day, 9 kits for first time mom.

The F1 litter all looked like Silver Fox, complete with Silvering. That isn't really far off, because SF and Angora do share the same body type and head structure, with FA ears a little more upright.

Kits were blue and black, meaning both the SF and the Angora buck carried blue. From the F1 litter, all bucks were discarded, and nothing goes back into the SF line. Two does were kept based on type.

The blue doe was the first to kindle, bred to her sire. She had blacks, blues and to my surprise chocolates. Seriously lilac is so far back on the ped, I did not expect to see it. The benefit of doubling up on genes.

By three weeks I should have information on what the fur looks like.

 

[Zass]

Oh interesting. Cant wait to see what they look like!

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm starting to think those blues are really lilacs. Second doe had her kits, looks like black and chocolate.

 

[WildWolf]

Ooo, I also can't wait for pictures

 

[dangerbunny]

Pictures!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Oooh! Fun project!

Pictures? opcorn:

 

[Sagebrush]

Hey now! Where are the pictures? opcorn:

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

Cant wait to see <br /><br /> __________ Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:25 pm __________ <br /><br /> Cant wait to see

 

[ckcs]

You bred them back to a FA buck? Am I correct that the odds of the Angora fur will be 50%? Not sure how the silver fox gene works, can you explain that?

 

[skysthelimit]

I will have pictures this afternoon. Doesn't look like any of the kits have wool this round. They still look like Sf, except their faces have changed, they have slightly wedge shaped faces and side burns, lol.
Th body type is beautiful and there is a particular black doe I'm in love with.

The F1 is 0%, the F2 is 25% expression but 50% genetic. So each kit has a 50-50 chance of receiving 2 copies, but you will see about 25% of the litter with some wool, as reported by folks who have done it, and there aren't many documenting it. So 2 of 9 kits will so some signs of having wool, though genetically 5 may be Angora. I will not really see decent wool til I breed these does back to their sire, or to the White Angora buck.

The Silver Fox gene is a bit mysterious. It does not require two copies, because their dam looks like a normal silver fox. It's possible these kits may even silver out. And more possible they might carry the Silver gene. I'm not too worried about that, because it won't be as noticable in Angora, and will look at great deal like Steel.

__________ Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:37 am __________

I forgot to answer the question.

The sires are FA, the doe Black SF. Both F1 does are from the same doe, one black, one blue.

The Blue doe was bred to her sire, the black doe to the White buck, who is related to the Black FA sire through his dam. His ped was all white for 4 gens.

The SF line carries dilute, but no chocolate. I got black, blue, lilac and chocolate in the first F2 litter, and black and chocolate in the second F2 litter, The black FA's ped is mixed up, I could have gotten quite a few things, but lilac is in the fourth generation. I am thrilled <br /><br /> __________ Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:27 pm __________ <br /><br /> picts

 

[Zass]

bunny rainbow

 

[ek.blair]

OH MY!!!! Those are too cute!!
:bunnyhop:

 

[Sagebrush]

They do look fuzzy!!

 

[ckcs]

Great job they look amazing. I love the fluffiness of the fur and the colors are gorgeous. The blue and lilac in particular look outstanding.

 

[skysthelimit]

It will be December before the doe I got in trade is ready, so I think I'm going to keep moving forward. Half of these gals will be bred to the sire, and half to the white buck.

 

[TwoAcreDream]

I really like the colors you ended up with

Okay, either I missed something or I don't understand the direction you
are working on by doing crossings.

You are using a angora with a silver fox. So are you looking for more
colors in future generations ?
And is the fur good quality / quanitiy, in the first generation for someone
looking to use them for fiber animals ?

I still have the angoras here. The one mom is doing very good with
her litter of 5, born May 5. She is gray and I am thinking of getting her
bred back. So could I use a broken rex on her for more colors ?
I am thinking of pets for the first generation.

The two mulit color does are looking really good now. I did
go ahead and breed one yesterday to the multi color buck. Neither of
the two mulit colors does had babies. But they did pull fur and go through
all the motions. They came here May 3, so odds are against them now,
to have been bred from the prior owner/s.

 

[skysthelimit]

Lol.


This is actually an off shoot from another conversation, so I didn't explain it all here.

After my disaster with Angoras, I decided I wasn't buying anymore of those expensive little furballs.

This winter I had an open doe, and no SF buck available. I also had some questions.

1. What is the inheritance like for the silvering gene.
2. How hard is it to lose the stand up fur, one of the hall marks of the SF breed.
3. How long does it really take to get a good representation of one breed when you cross breed. (for those people who insist on making their own because they can't find what they want).
4. Do my SF carry white?
5. What colors does my FA buck carry (because I had no FA does)

So I bred the FA buck to the SF doe, trying to get more Angoras with good wool. No goal towards color other than discovering what my buck carries. I already knew the SF doe carried blue.

There is no FA fur in the first generation. The resulting kits looked like Silver Fox, I really could not tell them from the others.

There is no useful fur in the second generation. They look like SF, except for the beards, and so far no silvering, but they are young.

I expect to see fur in the third generation, but it won't be that good. Should be much better from the 4th, and by the 5th, I shouldn't be able to tell them from my pure FAs.

__________ Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:45 am __________

I still have the angoras here. The one mom is doing very good with
her litter of 5, born May 5. She is gray and I am thinking of getting her
bred back. So could I use a broken rex on her for more colors ?
I am thinking of pets for the first generation.

What color is the Rex? You can predict some things from what you saw in the litters kindled and sired previously. You will get normal fur though from those breedings in the first generation.

I bred two selfs together, and the SF don't carry anything but blue, but the FAs ped is wide open, black, blue, fawn, sable, lilac, seal, REW. Lilac was in the 3rd gen, and I expected to see some type of tort or sable before I saw lilac.
The REW buck is from a ped of REWs, and since he was bred to a black doe, I have no idea what he is, because I got blacks and chocolates from him. He could be several things.


I may do a Rex breeding to show how long it takes to get good Rex fur back on a rabbit, when I have an available open doe.

 

[Zass]

3. How long does it really take to get a good representation of one breed when you cross breed. (for those people who insist on making their own because they can't find what they want).

The overall "silverfox look" seem to be really easy to get.

It's pretty alarming how many pedigreed SF rabbits I've seen for sale that were obviously out of champagne stock.

 

[TwoAcreDream]

This is Mr Bunny, the rex I use a lot. His face markings are not
the best but he throws some sharp looking babes. A lot of brokens.

The angora female, I was thinking about using was the solid gray one.
And or just breed her to the mulit color angora buck.
I need either nice angoras to sell or some darn cute pet stock.
I do have the mixed mutt moms to breed the rex to and also
quite a few rex does. No shortage of dates for this boy.

 

[Zass]

Mind if I add a pic of my own here? I got something with an odd coat in my last batch of 1/2 SF. The other half is all normal coated breeds. (Lilac, Sf, FG)


Eh, I'll just do it anyway...

(I know the pose is wrong)

It's just baby fuzz still, but it's more standup than most of pure my SF were at that age. The undercoat seems to be really dense. Most of my rabbits do not have undercoats that can be seen right through their guard hairs like this.
All the pale color is undercoat, it's especially visible on her back in the top pic. Kinda tricky to catch on camera.

Here is another try:

It's as if the few-and-far-between guard hairs form a kinda thin halo about that thick undercoat.