Sick Buck! Please Help!

[SarahMelisse]

Last month I traded my REW buck, Thistle, (and a doe) for another buck and doe from another breeder. The buck and doe that I received were quarantined for 24 days and are doing just fine. I got an email this morning from the other breeder about my buck that I traded her and I included the email below. Having never been to her Rabbitry, I don't know what her setup looks like or anything. Anyone have any ideas on what it could be or treatment suggestions I can pass on?


"Something is wrong with Thistle, but I'm not sure exactly what yet. He's very wobbly, and he can't walk straight for very long. If I hold him on his back then set him down again he struggles to get up. I gave him a check-over and he doesn't have any broken bones or wounds. His teeth are normal. Nails are normal. But I did notice a bit of discharge around his eyes. And he didn't eat all of his food yesterday. Has this happend before??? It looks like what happens to some of my litters sometimes. The babies will start out wobbly, then after a few days they can't walk at all without falling over, then they just lay down and kick their back legs, and they die within 5 days of the first symptoms. I have never seen an adult get this problem, but I'm worried that Thistle is showing the early symptoms. For now I'm going to isolate him from the herd and talk to my local breeders and vets. Please let me know if this has ever happend to you with an adult rabbit. I'm really sad that he might have what killed my babies before. I really like Thistle and I would be very very upset to lose him . "

 

[ladysown]

For now I'm going to isolate him from the herd and talk to my local breeders and vets.

he wasn't isolated? He was in with her herd?? You mentioned it had only been a month.

he's picked up something from the herd, is my most likely guess.

It looks like what happens to some of my litters sometimes. The babies will start out wobbly, then after a few days they can't walk at all without falling over, then they just lay down and kick their back legs, and they die within 5 days of the first symptoms.

I'd be suspecting she has a e.cuniculi problem. she'll be needing to treat that.

Please let me know if this has ever happened to you with an adult rabbit. I'm really sad that he might have what killed my babies before.

She can't be blaming you if she's only had him a month and her kits have had this before.

That doe that you got from her.... I'd cull her or treat her as she may be a carrier.

 

[SarahMelisse]

I don't think (or at least I hope not) she was blaming me at all. I have never had anything like that in my herd. She mentioned that she had a few kits from previous litters die because of this. Whatever "this" is. So obviously it didn't come from my Rabbitry. The doe I received is only four months old and neither rabbits I received showed any symptoms of anything.

I just integrated her two rabbits into my herd after about 24 days of isolation, but you're right-- it sounds like she didn't quarantine at all.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I really hope that 24 days is long enough for you. I go 4 to 6 weeks. No shorter. I think ladysown is right about the doe, She will be a carrier if there is something she has or had. I be very careful if i was you.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

If it is e.cuniculi, this website may help:

http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/ecuniculi.htm

 

[SarahMelisse]

:angry: Arg! It's just so frustrating because Thistle (the REW in question) was our family favorite. And now he is in someone else's care and sick. AND it is so hard to find French Angoras on the west coast! I hate to cull the doe I got since she is of completely different lines than I have had previously.... maybe I can just quarantine longer? Or do you all think that no symptoms will ever show and her litters will just spread this? And what of the buck I got from her? Cull him as well? Rawrg! :evil:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Poor Thistle.

I would extend the quarantine, and read up on e. cuniculi and the treatment protocol. Find out from the breeder if the symptoms and disease progression match.

The fact that the doe and buck are not ill indicates that they have resistance to it, but they still may be carriers. I don't like to treat if there are no symptoms, but considering they had exposure, I would consider treating them to protect the rest of your herd.

 

[ladysown]

24 hours isn't long enough for quarantine, it is best to go a month or longer (and yes...it's a pain, but it's better to be inconvenienced for a month then to have your herd come down with something).

The doe and buck I would simply treat as if they had it. It's passed along via urine.

NOW MIND.. this is something I just learned from the meat board and that's that Pasturella can exhibit as WRY neck or general weakness, mostly in the meat breeds. Personally I'd treat first as if they has a sub-clinical e.cuniculi virus. Isolate and treat and then reintegrate. There are people who don't follow barbi brown's protocol and simply treat more aggressively with Ivomec. And still others who use Panacur. I'd be inclined to use panacur since I read on some medical site that it's effective in treating it (it's inexpensive and doesn't stay in the system as long as ivomec can).

I just culled a doe because I kept losing her kits...and I couldn't pin down why so I started asking harder questions from her previous owner and learned the hard way that when there are evasive answers there's usually a reason... she had a similar thing happen with her previous litter.

SO.. I culled her rather than treat as she didn't bring in that much new to my rabbitry.

I have ONE offspring from her who will remain in isolation for the next six months, I'll breed him to a doe who will be kept in isolation and I'll see how they all do. (THAT's ONLY if I choose to keep that young buck). He's living on borrowed time so anything off and he's gone.

 

[SarahMelisse]

24 hours isn't long enough for quarantine, it is best to go a month or longer (and yes...it's a pain, but it's better to be inconvenienced for a month then to have your herd come down with something).

The doe and buck I would simply treat as if they had it. It's passed along via urine.

NOW MIND.. this is something I just learned from the meat board and that's that Pasturella can exhibit as WRY neck or general weakness, mostly in the meat breeds. Personally I'd treat first as if they has a sub-clinical e.cuniculi virus. Isolate and treat and then reintegrate. There are people who don't follow barbi brown's protocol and simply treat more aggressively with Ivomec. And still others who use Panacur. I'd be inclined to use panacur since I read on some medical site that it's effective in treating it (it's inexpensive and doesn't stay in the system as long as ivomec can).

I just culled a doe because I kept losing her kits...and I couldn't pin down why so I started asking harder questions from her previous owner and learned the hard way that when there are evasive answers there's usually a reason... she had a similar thing happen with her previous litter.

SO.. I culled her rather than treat as she didn't bring in that much new to my rabbitry.

I have ONE offspring from her who will remain in isolation for the next six months, I'll breed him to a doe who will be kept in isolation and I'll see how they all do. (THAT's ONLY if I choose to keep that young buck). He's living on borrowed time so anything off and he's gone.

I quarantined the two incoming rabbits for 24 DAYS not hours... I tried my best to go the full month, but we had a lot of problems with raccoons near the quarantine hutch and I just felt better putting them in the shed a little early.

As for the Ivomec, I know our local feed store carries it so my plan (and correct me if it seems overkill) is to treat everyone with a dose of the Ivomec and then perhaps even continue treatment every 6 months as Barbi Brown suggests.

I'd really like to exhaust all avenues (as long as the price tag isnt too big) and see how this new doe's litters come out before I decide to cull.<br /><br />__________ Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:22 pm __________<br /><br />She just sent me an email saying that Thistle had a seizure on the way to the vet. So I guess we'll see what her vet has to say. Either way, I sent her the link to the info on wry neck and its just going to have to be up to her.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

She just sent me an email saying that Thistle had a seizure on the way to the vet.

Oh no!

I would wait to hear what the vet thinks, but dosing them all for whatever the vet thinks it may be is probably your best option for now, just to be safe.

I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this. I always tell my buyers to let me know if anything shows up in the rabbits I have sold. So far they have all been healthy, but with the exception of OAF and one other buyer, they were the starter herd for them, so no exposure to other rabbits when they got home.

 

[SarahMelisse]

This is my first experience with new rabbits. I hadn't been able to find any new rabbits that I liked since my beginning trio and all my other rabbits were born here... so like you said, no real exposure until now. I just feel so bad because maybe if I hadn't of traded, Thistle would be okay.

 

[ladysown]

my apologies about the 24 hours vs Days. I understand the need to keep your animals safe vs keeping them in quarantine.

the seizure makes it more certain that it is e.cunniculi.

 

[SarahMelisse]

my apologies about the 24 hours vs Days. I understand the need to keep your animals safe vs keeping them in quarantine.

the seizure makes it more certain that it is e.cunniculi.

No problem. It's easy to misread text.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I just feel so bad because maybe if I hadn't of traded, Thistle would be okay.

That may be true, but there was no way you could have foreseen this. Much as we would like to, we can't keep all of our rabbits if we are going to move forward with our breeding programs.

She must love him already to be willing to seek treatment for him. Since Thistle is being seen by a vet, there is hope for not only him, but the rest of her herd if the vet makes the correct diagnosis of his problem. :clover:

 

[SarahMelisse]

Lets just hope the vet knows rabbits well enough to make a diagnosis! So many vets seem to be untrained in rabbits.<br /><br />__________ Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:02 pm __________<br /><br />Great... Now this girl wants to sue me. Apparently the vet told her that Thistle's ailment is not recent. Even though her email to me said that she has had litters die from this very same thing. I have never had wry neck in my Rabbitry. Period. So how is this my fault?

New she wants $257 in vet bills and is threatening to sue me AND report me to ARBA! What the $&!?

I think I may just ignore her email. I don't want to spur her on. And I probably wouldn't be too friendly about it. Luckily my sales policy clearly states that I provide no health guarantee after a rabbit has left my Rabbitry and that it is the responcibility of the buyer to make sure the rabbit is in good health (although I always show newbies toes, teeth, sex, etc). What do you think ARBA would do? I'd hate for her to mess up my membership or good standing just because she wants to hurt me.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

they will not do anything. DOnt worry about it. She is just trying to get you to pay the vet bill. Just tell her your policy and leave it at that ... And this is another reason why i really dont sell rabbits. What i dont want goes in the freezer. I am not a people person because of this.